Heartland

It struck me the other day that I only knew one black person who might (loosely) be termed a goth.

Are there any black members on this forum (name excepted)?

And if not, why not? Why is what one calls goth predominantly a white mans sad fantasy?

Speaking from a South African perspective:

Here things are even more complicated than they need to be, in the bad old days some of the catagories used to define people on their birth certificates were as follows:
black: of pure African heritage eg Zulu, iXhosa, etc.
white: of pure European heritage
coloured: mixed heritage, be it white, black or asian.

Class and culture is still very much defined along these lines and while there were a number of coloured goths on the scene when I still dipped my toe in the goth clubbing scene the vast majority was white. I remember only one black goth, but he wasn't around for that long. I don't think I ever came across a Muslim goth either.

I put it down to culture, more westernised people became familiar things happening in Europe and picked up on that, whereas Africans have always had their own culture and has only fairly recently started to absorb American influences.

Tuscan Chimaera wrote:It struck me the other day that I only knew one black person who might (loosely) be termed a goth.

Are there any black members on this forum (name excepted)?

And if not, why not? Why is what one calls goth predominantly a white mans sad fantasy?

WHY?

'It's gonna take a lot to drag me away from you
There's nothing that a hundred men or more could ever do
I bless the rains down in Africa
Gonna take some time to do the things we never had...'

I think that Dee is a member here. Don't know if she's a Goth though.

But a very nice person

<looks a little bit embarrassed>
I actually really like that song.........

Sexygoth wrote:<looks a little bit embarrassed>
I actually really like that song.........

Why are you embarrassed? I'm the one who knows the lyrics.

It's a really good song.

That's true
<looks a little less embarrassed, and laughs and points and Corpy>
Cheers for that mate LOL

Tuscan Chimaera wrote:
It struck me the other day that I only knew one black person who might (loosely) be termed a goth.

Are there any black members on this forum (name excepted)?

And if not, why not? Why is what one calls goth predominantly a white mans sad fantasy?


WHY?

Very occasionally now, but more often when my younger brother lived in LA, I would go out clubbing on the west coast.

It isn't the sort of thing I normally do, but, he does, and for various reasons we tended to have access to all that was deemed cool and exclusive in that part of the world.

And what struck me there, whilst pondering the usual equation of

[sh!te muzak]

minus

[hardbody clearly giving me the eye]

multiplied by

[is she of a deviant disposition]

less the square route of

[where said sibling is at]

is greater or equal to

[the desire to leave immediately and bemoan all that is not good about the otherwise very good united states of america]

I got to thinking how much white candy has taken to what is black music (rap, r'n'b et cet era) and yet how hopelessly inadequate they look dancing to it.

And it just seemed odd that the reverse doesn't happen. Is it because black people don't like the muzak? Why is that? Goth got no rhythm? Are blacks truer to their roots than white candy? Or is cod piece goth rock somehow racialist? etc.

Not something a care about hugely, but in the pursuit of stimulating debate, I thought it worth a pop.

Tuscan Chimaera wrote:Goth got no rhythm?

Possibly. My black schoolfriend would certainly have hated the Phono. He might have liked the Warehouse, but probably only because of the make-up and cocaine.

Some Greek bloke once said 'Guilty feelings got no rhythmn'.

Sexygoth wrote:That's true
<looks a little less embarrassed, and laughs and points and Corpy>
Cheers for that mate LOL

No problem. You can borrow my copy of Billy Ocean's Greatest Hits anytime.

TC, your confusion may stem from having made these observations whilst "clubbing on the west coast." How ghetto fabulous.

Red Sunsets wrote:Some Greek bloke once said 'Guilty feelings got no rhythmn'.

No he didn't. He said guilty feet have got no rhythm.

Which is one of the best lines of all time.

Guys! Guys! Realise!
There's danger in emotional ties.

CorpPunk wrote:'It's gonna take a lot to drag me away from you
There's nothing that a hundred men or more could ever do
I bless the rains down in Africa
Gonna take some time to do the things we never had...'

They used that song to advertise beer here

Thrash Harry wrote:Guys! Guys! Realise!
There's danger in emotional ties.

Also BEWARE of Neckties - they are very dangerous

hallucienate wrote:

CorpPunk wrote:'It's gonna take a lot to drag me away from you
There's nothing that a hundred men or more could ever do
I bless the rains down in Africa
Gonna take some time to do the things we never had...'

They used that song to advertise beer here

I expect to get much "flax" for this - but what is that song?

Or I am right to thinks its "Africa" by Toto!

Does Tunisia (pronounced: 2-Knees-Ya, for our American visitors) count as Africa?
If so it sucks and smells funny.

Yes, Tunisia is in Africa.

I think I've seen a few British Asian goths. Not many, though. I suppose it's harder to fit into the stereotypical bodily aesthetic, preoccupied as goths often are with pale makeup contrasted with dark clothes / hair.

I suspect that the rest just have better things to do with their time.

Red Sunsets wrote:Does Tunisia (pronounced: 2-Knees-Ya, for our American visitors) count as Africa?
If so it sucks and smells funny.

That is because to most Americans, it's a small world outside of the busom of uncle sam.

Tarzan sums up Africa pretty well doesn't it.

All mountains, rivers, lions and bad people, who look remarkably like WWI german troops as i remember, hunting down hidden treasures

Can't really say much about the topic except for a few observations. MTV music award a few years back has an interesting social-cultural contrast in Marilyn Manson performing in front of a predominatly afro-american audience. They seemed pretty disgusted by it all - not in the least because most of the people have a strong Christian background I believe.

In the end I suppose it really depends where you get your influences from. Frenk Rijkaard (Dutch footballer/coach of Surinam descent) for instance has a great interest in alternative 'rock' (Pixies, etc.) which I think he got in his teenage years.

Also, The Sisters were never big in the Netherlands where I grew up - I just stumbled on it by chance after spending too much time in 2nd hand recordshops.

All depends on what comes you way (at the moments that is Primal Scream's Dirty Hits (remixes) - btw.)

Thrash Harry wrote:Guys! Guys! Realise!
There's danger in emotional ties.

I think that should be 'wise guys realise' TH....

Yes, I like Wham, and I am not ashamed.

I'm sure a couple of the Leeds folk on here must know Clint? But that's only...

Tuscan Chimaera wrote:...one black person who might (loosely) be termed a goth...

...that I know, too.