Heartland

Let us pray.

Pray for what? For the ppl that died in this attack?

Or for the ppl that died in terrorist attacks that normally ppl forget?

Pray for the ppl that died in the stupid conflit between Israel and Palestine?

Or for the ppl that died all time in wars that no one cares about, specially USA?

Or pray for the ppl that died with the weapons sold by USA, that has been the world's largest arms dealer?

Or pray for Bush not win again the elections?

We have so much things to pray for. This attack is just a lil part of the problem. And this is not for sure the priority of my prayers.

moonchild wrote:Pray for what? For the ppl that died in this attack?

Or for the ppl that died in terrorist attacks that normally ppl forget?

Pray for the ppl that died in the stupid conflit between Israel and Palestine?

Or for the ppl that died all time in wars that no one cares about, specially USA?

Or pray for the ppl that died with the weapons sold by USA, that has been the world's largest arms dealer?

Or pray for Bush not win again the elections?

We have so much things to pray for. This attack is just a lil part of the problem. And this is not for sure the priority of my prayers.

my feelings exactly

no disrespect but:-

either:-

a) you have been drinking
b) you are american (i doubt!!!!)
c) you have just watched some docu prog on the 911 thang
d) you are a christian (I doubt)
e) you are very bored

or

f) it has just dawned on you what day it is and it seemed it had gone unoticed on HL.

just wondering....

It was one of those "where were you" days, it was a dreadful thing....everyone who lost people has my sympathy....

but....

praying?

what is the point?
it aint gonna save/redeem/bring back/console.....

I knew someone who was in the 2nd tower, worked for Sun Microssytems, a work coleague, sorry mate but preying aint gonna stop this slide into chaos.....

A terrible act, a day to remember, and never forget, but considering the big picture, as Dave Alan once said "to which god you prey to..."

Religion was the cause...it sure as the hell aint the answer.....

I can see the point of having a service or whatever on the first anniversary but now its a media event every year. It was a tragic thing to happen and I feel for those people's loss but at least 6,000 innocent civilian men, women and children have been killed in Iraq by Americans. Will they get a media event every year?........ nope, I hear the sound of carpets lifting and brushes sweeping.
Apparantly, some deaths are good and some are bad, who decides?

Don't pray for the dead, they're gone and don't need it.
Pray for the living cos we sure as hell need it.

Rivers wrote:at least 6,000 innocent civilian men, women and children have been killed in Iraq by Americans.

No. Wrong. And your choice of words p***es me off. The people that died (and continue to die) in Iraq are slaughtered at the hands of the American government, or, more accurately, at the hands of one mans greed. Do not lump all Americans into this, as you'll find that many Americans, myself included, do not support this war, and are in fact horrified by it and the death it has brought. Do you think anyone would appreciate it if I said the people that died on the day of 9/11 were killed by middle Easterners? Of course not. Because they were killed by terrorists, not an entire people.

Deep breath.

*Packs up soapbox*

Ok, I would like to correct my statement. *Supresses laughter*

The people that died on 9/11, as my conspiracy theorist husband has informed me, died at the hands of a remote control. Which was, I'm told, operated by the American government.

So I stand corrected.

Wellwellwell.....

Everyone seems to share almost the same feeling.

Every day people die because of war, accidents, natural disasters or murder.

But when it happens in America, the WHOLE DARN world has to grieve.

Did America grieve when ((insert a gazillion things here))?

No.

I think it is very sad what happened.

Now, Americans, pay your respect by being humble, not making a tourist attraction out of it.

Sorry.

IZ.

CtrlAltDelete, I used the words 'killed by Americans' in the factual sense rather than an emotional one. I didn't say THE Americans. I understand and agree with you on the people who made the choice for them to be there. There are British people out there killing innocents too.
Izzy has made my point for me, on one hand the world grieves for the losses on Sept 11, I do to but on the other hand even more innocents are dying but that is very much ignored. Perhaps the American people will vote for someone other than Bush in November.
I have American friends who disagree with what is going on in their name, I do not blame Americans as a race for whats happening.

Izzy HaveMercy wrote: Did America grieve when ((insert a gazillion things here))?

.

Sigh. See, you're lumping everyone together into one neat pile. I know it's probably easier for you to do that than to believe that there are some Americans who don't think they're gods gift. And I would hate to bother you by asking you to open your mind just a little. So please, feel free to lump me and a few million other Americans into one big egotistic pile. I really love that, and so do all my friends.

I guess people want to think that all Americans think and act the same, it's easier to hate us that way. Go ahead and ignore the many of us who grieved for all the people recently killed in Russia just as hard as we did for the people killed on 9/11 (just the most recent example). My mom was in the grocery store when she heard the news about the people that died in the Russian school, and she stood there crying in front of everyone. She never shed a tear during 9/11. But I guess it makes your life easier not to think of stuff like that.

Honest to god, I usually really hate America, I had no say so in being born here, and I usually respect foreigners more than I do my fellow Americans. But when people say stupid s**t like above, it makes me think the people of the world are just as ignorant as Americans.

Gah. I usually never leave the Sisters forum. Now I remember why. I f**king hate people.

Rivers wrote: Perhaps the American people will vote for someone other than Bush in November.
.

LOL, we didn't elect him last time. Technically, Al Gore is president. So for those who are as ignorant about the plight of Americans as they believe all Americans are of other nations, I recount the sordid tale...

The vote of the people is called the Popular vote, it represents who the citizens want to be president. In 2000, Al Gore received 50,992,335 votes nationwide and George W. Bush received 50,455,156 votes.

Then there's something called the electoral college vote. The representatives of each state (senators) cast their vote for president, and each state is voted either democrat or republican. During this vote, the president is decided by how many states are voted for his party.

Here is where the proverbial s*** hit the fan. President Bush has a brother, Jeb Bush, and he is the governer of Florida. During the Florida election, there was an "accident" with the voting ballots. President Bushs name was put in a spot on the ballot where many people believed they were supposed the check their nomination for Gore. So those wanting to vote for Gore, accidentally checked the box for Bush. Oops. Convenient, eh?

This little "accident" made the popular vote very close. When the popular vote is very close, it goes to the college electoral. Mind you, the popular vote wouldn't have been close had Jeb Bush not cheated the election for his brother.

After Bush was awarded the state of Florida, he had a total of 271 electoral votes, which beat Gore's 266 electoral votes.

The whole thing caused a huge scandal, and we were without a president for about 35 days.

So you see, the people (by popular vote) did not elect Bush. The majority of us think he's an ignorant, egotistical, power-hungry murderer. Unfortunately, our hands were tied in his election, and I'm sure he has something up his sleeve for the next election.

God, I really hate it when people make me defend America.

CtrlAltDelete, at the moment your country has a lot to answer for. We all realise that most Americans don't support Bush, and that most Americans didn't vote for Bush, but a lot of Americans didn't vote at all. Hopefully this will change in November.

hallucienate wrote:CtrlAltDelete, at the moment your country has a lot to answer for. We all realise that most Americans don't support Bush, and that most Americans didn't vote for Bush, but a lot of Americans didn't vote at all. Hopefully this will change in November.

Agree

Hey Hal did you watch "the World According to Bush" on Special Assignment last Tuesday? I missed it but I believe it's being rescreened next Sunday.

hallucienate wrote:CtrlAltDelete, at the moment your country has a lot to answer for. .

I agree that George W. Bush has a lot to answer for. But he does not represent the majority of Americans, and I hate when people lump all of us together. If I had it my way, he would be tried for war crimes. But that will never happen as the US has immunity (yeah, I think that's bs).

Would it be fair for me to critisize all Cubans for the actions of Castro? No. Or the Yugoslavians for the crimes of Milosovic? Of course not. Iraqis for Husseins crimes? Again, no.

So why is it perfectly acceptable to berate all Americans for the actions of a man we did not even elect?

People do not say "The Iraqis have done horrible things". They say "Saddam Hussein has done horrible things". So why is it alright to say "Americans have done horrible things", and not "George Bush has done horrible things"? Why is that so hard to do or say or understand?

I don't think that people realize that Americans suffer injustice also. I don't think that people realize that most Europeans (the people most eager to critisize us) have more freedom than Americans do.

With Bushs new Patriot Act, I can be immediately stipped of all my basic rights as an American and human. All my activities can be monitered and logged, I can be locked up indefinately, my home searched and seized, all my posessions and freedoms ripped from me. And they don't even have to give me a reason for doing it.

Do you think that this is the man I want to be seen as representing me? Do you think most Americans do?

I don't ask anyone to agree with us, or like us. All I ask is that you arm yourself with information before you judge an entire people by the actions of one man.

Izzy HaveMercy wrote:But when it happens in America, the WHOLE DARN world has to grieve.

Did America grieve when ((insert a gazillion things here))?

IZ.

No one here expects the whole world to grieve. That's just your perception (an erroneous one at that).

Do Americans grieve more for 9/11 than tragedies in other parts of the world? Would you grieve more if your mother died or if your co-workers mother died? The former, of course.

Most Americans grieve more for what happened on 9/11 because some of us lost loved ones. And what happened shocked the hell out of us. This isn't the first tragedy we've seen on American soil. There's the Oklahoma City bombing (where I live), the L.A. riots, Columbine (and a ton of other school shootings), the DC sniper...I could go on and on.

My heart aches at any senseless death, whether it happens here, in Russia, Iraq, Spain, anywhere. And I'm not the only one. A couple days ago, there was a vigil held downtown here in memory of the innocent people who lost their lives in the recent Russian tragedies. Yep, that sounds pretty heartless and uncaring to me.

But it's easier for you to have prejudice against us if you see us all as insensitive, isn't it?

CtrlAlDelete, I have only one thing to say and that is:

Rivers wrote:CtrlAltDelete, I used the words 'killed by Americans' in the factual sense rather than an emotional one. I didn't say THE Americans. I understand and agree with you on the people who made the choice for them to be there. There are British people out there killing innocents too.
Izzy has made my point for me, on one hand the world grieves for the losses on Sept 11, I do to but on the other hand even more innocents are dying but that is very much ignored. Perhaps the American people will vote for someone other than Bush in November.
I have American friends who disagree with what is going on in their name, I do not blame Americans as a race for whats happening.

Don't get all jumpy.
When I say 'the Americans' or 'America' in this context, I mean all people in suits waving on TV telling the world that they all have to grieve for America.

It is like saying that Germany killed the whole Jewish population in the World Wars, or that all Muslims tend to blow themselves up on markets.

It's a way of saying things.

IZ.

Izzy HaveMercy wrote:Don't get all jumpy.
When I say 'the Americans' or 'America' in this context, I mean all people in suits waving on TV telling the world that they all have to grieve for America.

It is like saying that Germany killed the whole Jewish population in the World Wars, or that all Muslims tend to blow themselves up on markets.

It's a way of saying things.

IZ.

Alright, fair enough (although I would prefer people say "American government" instead of America or Americans, as I do for other people as it's not hard to type out one extra word to avoid confusion and offense).

I'll make the switch to decaf.

I'll see to that, CtrlAltDel

Also, in the future, when I talk about 'ass-holes', I'll type 'American ass-holes'

Good understanding is the first step towards global peace, no


IZ.

A slight case of over bombing indeed! Perhaps we mean the American government, military, big business (especially oil)and the media are to blame here for the mess. AltControlDelete is blameless and so are millions of other innocent peace loving, outward looking American citizens.
Ok now? Peace and cake to you all.

Izzy HaveMercy wrote: Also, in the future, when I talk about 'ass-holes', I'll type 'American ass-holes'

IZ.

Touche'.

great, now we've got world peace sorted out, can we turn our attention to the NHS

lucretia wrote: Agree

Hey Hal did you watch "the World According to Bush" on Special Assignment last Tuesday? I missed it but I believe it's being rescreened next Sunday.

yeah, watched the last hour of it. Very good, probably even better than Farenheit 9/11

I might have to tape in on Sunday just to get the first bit.