Heartland

Before Wayne and Craig went their seperate way, they were apparently knocking out demos for a new album with Eldritch. I even recall after Craig left, that Eldritch and Hussey were working together in Germany.

so the question is, did these demos ever surface?

I'd thought Garden Of Delight might have been one of these sessions, but it seems that is was from 1984 sometime. (And the more I listen to it, the more it sounds like it might have morphed into Marian).

Any ideas?

As far as I know they were working on the 2nd album with the provisional title Left On M i s s i o n And Revenge, I think Garden Of Delight is from that period, the Serpent's Kiss demo (?) also ... another story I heard was that Eldritch didn't want to sing Wayne's lyrics (though Garden Of Delight seems to suggest otherwise) leading to even more tention and the eventual break-up ... but someone more knowledgeable will hopefully be able to tell you more ...

has there ever been an official/reliable timeline of events? one that is consistent under questioning (ie: one doesnt change every time someone ask eldritch?)

i seem to recall a discussion on here a while ago that seemed to have it pretty much nailed in IMHO - with "torch" being the catalyst song that made craig leave, on the back of andrew already having rejected a lot of wayne (& presumably gary's?) songs/lyrics...

So does Torch predate the Sisterhood era ? I think there's a demo of Torch on the fabled Sisterhood demos cassette (there used to be mention of this on Robin's Uncle Sister webpage, but cannot find the link anymore )

It was a while ago now but I seem to recall that "Torch" was one of the first Eldritch-penned songs to be brought to the table. Craig didn't like the bassline.

No one liked Wayne's songs.

Comparing the various offerings at the time it's my supposition that all parties concluded that there wasn't much point carrying on. Musical and artistic differences.

References to Motörhead and Fleetwood Mac were drawn, and Wayne's propensity to plunder rock's rather gory back catalogue with little or no degree of subtlety started to grate on your imperious leader's nerves.

What amuses me most about the whole episode was that Craig should have counted himself lucky that there wasn't a "drummer's song".

It seems there was a discussion on this subject in early 2003 as well.

Well, I actually quite like Torch. Oh well. So sue me.

I do remember the Fleetwood Mac and Motorhead theme too, and have already said sometime previously that in the light of the subsequent output of the two bands, Hussey's comparison falls very flat. For me, Vision Thing and Doctor Jeep out-Motorhead anything the Mession ever did. But yes, Von has been known to sing a bit of Stevie Nicks...

Well, sounds like there might have been a version of Torch at the very least Sounds like its not very freely available though.

I wish I knew exactly when Serepents/Garden Of Delight were from though.... they certainly sound like 1985 demos (more acoustic, more Mish like, more like the No Time To Cry B-Sides (the last Sisters songs to be recorded before Floodland))... anyone know for sure?

I always got the impression that the version of Garden Of Delight with Eldritch on vocals was an out take from the FALAA sessions.
By most accounts it does not sound like the Left On Mission And Revenge sessions got as far any kind of formalised demos.

With regard to The Sisterhood demos - the one I (and nearly everyone
else on this site I imagine) would like to get their sweaty little mits on is the version of This Corrosion with James Ray on vocals.

As it is the most "traditional" song on Gift, I always thought Giving Ground
was probably an out take from LOMAR.

Erudite wrote:As it is the most "traditional" song on Gift, I always thought Giving Ground
was probably an out take from LOMAR.

I'd guess you're right.

Given what we know now, it does beggar belief that Von was motivated enough to write and record those songs in a matter of weeks. (OK there's only 5, but still...)

I'd personally be surprised if Giving Ground was written for LOMAR, since the theme of the song seems to be - sod off, you thieving liar (Hussey). I always saw it as a split-up song. But who knows?

MrChris wrote:I'd personally be surprised if Giving Ground was written for LOMAR, since the theme of the song seems to be - sod off, you thieving liar (Hussey). I always saw it as a split-up song. But who knows?

agreed

Quiff Boy wrote:

MrChris wrote:I'd personally be surprised if Giving Ground was written for LOMAR, since the theme of the song seems to be - sod off, you thieving liar (Hussey). I always saw it as a split-up song. But who knows?

agreed

but then thinking about, eldritch has always had a tendency to complete a backing track before writing words.

maybe he wrote the music prior to the bust-up and then adding the venom after?

ahh, the joys of conjecture

MrChris wrote:I'd personally be surprised if Giving Ground was written for LOMAR, since the theme of the song seems to be - sod off, you thieving liar (Hussey). I always saw it as a split-up song. But who knows?

There again didn't Gary say somewhere, that he thought Von wrote Walk Away as a veiled attack on him. If this is true Von was writing 'Split up songs' in early 84

"veiled attack"?

IMO the veil is so thin as to be nonexistent!

sort of.

http://www.myheartland.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=2140

HL) There’s a “story� that says that “Walk Away� was about you – did you know that? And if so, how did you feel about it?

GM) When we were making ‘First And Last And Always’ Andrew was effectively splitting with his long-term girlfriend and I was close to leaving the band. The two things led to a number of references in the lyrics which seemed to cover his farewells to us both. ‘Walk Away’ may or may not be about me, I don’t care because I don’t particularly like the song – the one lyric which always bugs me is the line from ‘Some Kind Of Stranger’ which says ‘..careful lingers undecided at the door’ which I definitely took as a shot at me.

markfiend wrote:Given what we know now, it does beggar belief that Von was motivated enough to write and record those songs in a matter of weeks.

A question of motivation

Erudite wrote:I always got the impression that the version of Garden Of Delight with Eldritch on vocals was an out take from the FALAA sessions.
By most accounts it does not sound like the Left On m*****n And Revenge sessions got as far any kind of formalised demos.

From FALAA era. The lyrics were ditched, some new ones were written which were "inspired" by Red Skies Disappear (which obtained new lyrics and became FALAA) and the song became Marian.

Glad I'm not the only one who sees Marian / Garden Of Delight similarites

nodubmanshouts wrote:Glad I'm not the only one who sees Marian / Garden Of Delight similarites

Is has exactly the same baseline, I thought it was accepted fact...

[edit]or is it wasteland (long day and major headache, I don't even want to think about the m*****n)

Wasteland's guitar line is the same as Marian's bass line....

but Marian's guitar line contains the same notes in the same order with slightly different timings as Garden of Delight's guitar line. I think

Nah, scratch that, I just gave it another listen -- even the timings the same

Must I find everything???

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 11023&rd=1

shivarising wrote: Must I find everything???

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 11023&rd=1

Looks very much like the tracks from here...

quiff boy,

at the RAH gig, eldritch dedicates walk away to mr marx

"this is for the wakefield branch of the pete best* fan club"

*beatles guitar man, before they started selling a few records.

charming.

Pete Best wasn't a guitar man he was the drummer!