Heartland

With it apparently all over bar the t-shirt sales (of course Von has been written off by many people many times before, so my retraction is already prepared) I thought it was time to hold a post mortem on the corpse that was once TSOM.
Now, I know this ground has been trodden many times before, but despite all reason and logic this forum continues to attract new members, ones who have yet to have their say on this, perhaps the last topic truly worth discussing.

1985: Eldritch fails to die from his own excess. Okay, this one is a bit harsh but you can all see where it goes. Hussey and Adams hijack both the band name and back catalogue; the Doktor is forcibly retired and TSOM storm TOTP with Tower Of Strength. Eldritch becomes revered as a legend.

1993: After effectively clearing the decks with not one but two compilation albums the time was right for another reinvention of the Sisters’ sound. In the past Eldritch had always moved on and developed the sound of the band, admittedly often through line up changes. If anything, his performance with the Utah Saints at the Off The Street benefit gig showed a wealth of possibilities. A rock/techno/dance hybrid would probably have carried the band forward to stadiums and clubs across Europe. This was originally voiced by someone else in an earlier thread - please feel free to step up and claim the credit.

1998: Having escaped his contract with Time Warners Inc. Eldritch promptly fails to release a series of promised Indie singles that would have thanked the fans for their many years of patience and propelled the band back into the public eye. Bit of a no-brainer, but we all know it’s true.

1999 - 2003: Eldritch fails to release new album/live DVD/any form of recognisable product with the exception of an endless series of tour t-shirts. Fans and promoters alike become predictably hacked off and the gigs dry up. Curiously enough it is about this time that Sisters tracks start to appear on dodgy i.e. Goth orientated compilations of 80’s music. Draw your own conclusions.

Well there you have it, obvious, I admit, so please feel free to add, detract or otherwise brutalise the above.

PS

Apologies to the estate of Douglas Adams for stealing the title of this thread.

the back catalogue is property of east-west if I remember correctly, so your last insinuation seems a bit tedious, but for the rest it seems quite right to me....
his biggest mistake? he made collaborations with terri nunn and ofra haza, but blatantly forgot the fairest of them all: lisa gerrard

Not releasing a piano and strings only, version
of "Lucretia"...

the '93 and '98 mistakes as you've highlighted there pretty accurate and are the biggest.

he missed a great opportunity with the '93 hype/P.R. & the "change of direction" could have been very successful.

however, that whole dance/rock hybrid didnt last very long and i think it would ultimately have been a very short-term move.

by '98 he was clutching at straws, but something stunning could have rescued the situation.

now? who knows. it would have to be a pretty remarkable trick to pull something out of the bag and make a go of it now. the impetus & the drive have gone, and the time is past.

new products would spark a bit of curiosity and maybe even a bit of a fervour in the old fans, but he isnt going to win (m)any new ones based on their new material ot product (whatever shape or form that may be) - and i dont think they could keep the momentum going after any new dvd or album or whatever. sure, they may tour the album/dvd but after that? what then? another 10+ years before new product?

i cant see them releasing a slew of singles (with more new songs required as b sides dont forget) when all signs indicate that they only have 8 or so new songs in them...

nah, its too late. whatever they did know would be a single shot. they dont have the momentum, the material or the widespread appeal to be able to get back into the public eye.

I think the story of The Sisters appeals to the romantic in us: (and ) that part of the psyche that prefers heroic failure to modest success.

Although the failure hasn't been so much heroic as just fading away, like the proverbial old soldier.

Erudite wrote:Well there you have it, obvious, I admit, so please feel free to add, detract or otherwise brutalise the above.

2003 - not exposing his navel often enough on the Smoke and Mirrors tour. A truly unforgivable mistake.

They could release the "new" (ie less old than some schoolchildren) material in a slew of singles, with B-sides culled from the back catalogue / remixes.

That would just about make it work, and offers scope for a sweep-up compilation album to follow in a few more years.

Or they could combine it all into a new album.

But neither of these would launch them back into the mass-market, and they'd simply look like wrinkly old losers trying to flog a dead horse one last time.

For fans, it's surely better to accept it as being over. The blaze of glory has blazed and the comet has disappeared over the horizon.

"It's not the ending of the world / it's only the closing of a discotheque"

He was and still is too full of himself. It's a horrible character trait that I have come to love, unfortunately.

He did him self in and we all know that.

villageidiot wrote:He was and still is too full of himself. It's a horrible character trait that I have come to love, unfortunately.

He did him self in and we all know that.

While he slept, and toured in between, the music industry changed a lot:

- last album they did was on the cusp of the vinyl disappearance (1990)
- digital music, nuff said
- consolidation of major labels, less incentive to risk $$$ on unreliable bands that go on strike

Von's refusal to accept reality is what did them in. The band has no hope of being 'major label', and he's too proud to start from the bottom again. Can't say I blame him.

The only thing I really think we'll ever see is a release of the 'new' songs, but I doubt they'd have the gaul to tour THAT (again), though you never know. A DVD wouldn't sell diddly, let's face it.

They'd have more chance at exposure by selling 'Train' to a car commercial or something.

Mind you, with the state of the singles market, there could be one
final blaze of glory as you dont have to sell too many these days...

Not that I think a release would happen for a moment even though the download market etc. makes any of these things possible at next to no cost.

Round and round we go again with this discussion....

Well, I'm going to make a stand - if does browse this forum from time to time as intimated/hypothesised by some...well, I'm never going to another Sisters gig unless anything new is released.

So there, ya boo sucks
I'm voting with my feet!

Och I just know he'll be back when everyone least expects it, and I can see his huge grin right now, as every fuckers jaw drops like an anvil!

(And no I don't know where my optimism comes from, but that's all part and parcel of being a Sisters fan, ain't it?)

With Von, it's less to do with mistakes he has actually made (there is no clanger of an album, no dodgy and embarrassing hair period with the exception of The Beard), it's all about what he hasn't done. Wasted potential. Failure to deliver what I have no doubt he's capable of.

Music has changed so much since 1993. Hair metal had only just let out its death rattle, and dance music was still relatively new - to the mainstream at least. Under the Gun and Vision Thing harked back to the former, and 1980's power-ballad bombast, with little acknowledgement of the latter (unless you count the drum machine).
I've always been pleased with him for apparently getting into Euro industrial music and so on - that's the kind of rock/dance hybrid I like, rather than the early '90's sort of thing. The one thing the Sisters lacked that I love was a good bit of synth, and I think that judging by his work with Die Krupps etc., the "industrial groove machine" incarnation of the Sisters could really work. The man can write a song. He still looks good. I don't think it would be a let down, but time is running out.

boudicca wrote:no dodgy and embarrassing hair period with the exception of The Beard

Don't be afeared of the beard!

A few random thoughts:

More, the single, should have been followed up by Ribbons and I was wrong (Label to blame).

There should have been a better (i.e more expensive) video promoting Under the gun, to get more airtime on MTV (Label to blame).

Sisters during the Vision Thing era would have looked better as a trio. (Tim to blame, for looking awkward and out of place).

Zuma wrote:Round and round we go again with this discussion....

...and still the vast majority of those who take part in it take for granted the (incomprehensible for me) concept that an artist only deserves to be considered great as along as he is very famous, widely recognised, plays huge gigs for huge crowds of people, and regularly releases the songs he's created.

Zuma wrote:well, I'm never going to another Sisters gig unless anything new is released.

That'll be more room for me, thank you very much.

The Green Lantern wrote:There should have been a better (i.e more expensive) video promoting Under the gun, to get more airtime on MTV (Label to blame).

No, no, and 1000 x no. Under the gun is perfect as it is, and if the whole MTV thing disppeared off the face of the planet it wouldn't make any difference.

_emma_ wrote:...and still the vast majority of those who take part in it take for granted the (incomprehensible for me) concept that an artist only deserves to be considered great as along as he is very famous, widely recognised, plays huge gigs for huge crowds of people, and regularly releases the songs he's created.

its called "productivity", surely?

and an artist can only continue to be called an artist for as long as they are doing something. anything.

otherwise they are a "has been"

_emma_ wrote:

The Green Lantern wrote:There should have been a better (i.e more expensive) video promoting Under the gun, to get more airtime on MTV (Label to blame).

No, no, and 1000 x no. Under the gun is perfect as it is, and if the whole MTV thing disppeared off the face of the planet it wouldn't make any difference.

It's okay I guess. I just think it would have done better with the MTV kids back then if there had been more explosions and motorbikes and sunsets in it

Quiff Boy wrote: its called "productivity", surely?

and an artist can only continue to be called an artist for as long as they are doing something. anything.

Well, we heard one great new song just 2 years ago.
Not that I wouldn't have loved to get more, but still it was great.
But seriously, it's February and still no news of any gigs this year... I'm starting to get nervous and depressed.

otherwise they are a "has been"

Not to mention all those who are dead now. Aren't they worth even less?

_emma_ wrote:

otherwise they are a "has been"

Not to mention all those who are dead now. Aren't they worth even less?

not sure i understand that one... seems a bit daft.

how do you mean?

they are dead, ergo they couldnt produce anything even if they wanted to.

yer man eldo has no excuse.

_emma_ wrote:Not to mention all those who are dead now. Aren't they worth even less?

As in the case of Mr Presley, Mr Morrison and Mr Cobain, they are worth
a hell of a lot more to the owners of the back catalogue.

The trouble with heroes is that if they don't die the chances are that they grow old and disappoint you - not that I'm wishing death on anybody.

There are of course some exceptions such as Lemmy and Iggy Pop who have actually managed to sustain lengthy careers and a degree of critical credibility.
Nick Cave, I suspect, will still be making good music ten years from now.
While Robert Smith and Ian MacCulloch are sliding dangerously towards self-parody.

Eldritch, God only knows? Boudicca is right, with him it is far more a case of what he hasn't done. He could have gone on to produce, or gone solo after the original band split, and had he concentrated on making records regardless of whatever tags the media had tried to foist upon him would no doubt have gone on to critical acclaim.

My prediction:

The 25th anniversary gig will take place on 16th Feb next year, probably at Leeds Uni again. At the end of the gig Von will say "Thank you and good bye" and then an announcement on the official site that The Sisters Of Mercy are departed and gone.

And that's if we're lucky. If we're unlucky, we'll still be sitting here in 6 years time, saying "well, maybe they'll come out of retirement for the 30th anniversary."

The Green Lantern wrote:A few random thoughts:


There should have been a better (i.e more expensive) video promoting Under the gun, to get more airtime on MTV (Label to blame).

From what I recall Eldritch is very fond of the video - according to him it shows him in full "love-god" mode!

Big Si wrote:Och I just know he'll be back when everyone least expects it, and I can see his huge grin right now, as every fuckers jaw drops like an anvil!

(And no I don't know where my optimism comes from, but that's all part and parcel of being a Sisters fan, ain't it?)

Like I said - my retraction is already written!

Big Si wrote:

boudicca wrote:no dodgy and embarrassing hair period with the exception of The Beard

Don't be afeared of the beard!

Call that a beard?