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Alice
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Obviousman
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PostPost #1  Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 9:44 pm    Post subject: Alice Reply with quote Back to top

My eyes just passed by the lyrics of Alice coincidentally (I use parts of it as a sig elsewhere Wink ) which made me wonder about its meaning, surprised me quite a bit nothing about this song was on here Surprised

Anyway, the thing that came to my mind has to do with the 'Pass the crystal, spread the tarot, in illusion comfort lies... The safest way, the straight and narrow, no confusion, no surprise...' lines mostly, which are IMHO one of the top lines ever written by anyone...

Now I was wondering, at first sight it has to do mainly with black magic, fortune tellers etc., but then all of a sudden it came to my mind it could possibly have something to do with drugs, crystal, obviously, gambling with your live, not wanting to see reality, living in your own fantasy world, ...

Any opinions, or better thoughts ? Smile
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nick the stripper
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PostPost #2  Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I always thought the song was about escapism and that in the line you mentioned Von was showing the similarities between religion and drugs.
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Obviousman
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PostPost #3  Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

nick the stripper wrote:
I always thought the song was about escapism and that in the line you mentioned Von was showing the similarities between religion and drugs.


Comes very close to what I was trying to say but not finding the words for We are not worthy!

How about adding superstition to the list, or do you consider that just as a special case of religion Question
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PostPost #4  Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 11:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

paint it black wrote:
it's related to the jefferson airplane song, if you do more research, you might find the answer Our fearless leader!

feed your head


And White Rabbit is based on Alice in Wonderland, which to me is about escapism.

I just looked Alice up on the 1959 And All That site, this is what they said:

Quote:
Alice is partly inspired by Alice in Wonderland, and partly by Jefferson Airplane's alleged hippy `classic' White Rabbit. Drugs and innocence being the themes.

"Black magic is a way of covering up the inability of making any intelligent comment. Like the reference to Tarot on the new single says: "In illusion comfort lies" which means black magic is just another illusion that people use to wrap themselves up in and hide from the real world." - Eldritch, Sounds 1982.


It's one of Von's easier songs to figure out.

@Obviousman I consider superstitions to be a form of religion.
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eastmidswhizzkid
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PostPost #5  Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

according to Von [york festival,1984]:-
Quote:
this songs about barbiturates,and how very bad for you they are.


(or there abouts.)
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PostPost #6  Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 12:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

i always read it as being about a clairvoyant who,despite/because of her profession,cannot life without her drug (barbiturate?) addiction.
although/because she makes a living from telling people "futures" involving 'tall,dark and handsomes' (you have to really p*ss-off fortune-tellers before they tell you anything bad in your 'reading') she knows it is a sham;therefore she resorts to downers to alleviate her fear of life and what it will bring.
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PostPost #7  Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 8:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

paint it black wrote:
Quote:
And White Rabbit is based on Alice in Wonderland, which to me is about escapism.

I just looked Alice up on the 1959 And All That site, this is what they said:


and yet aghain, they spout bollox. same as it ever was Confused

in my version, alice is a white middleclass teenager, a shy girl, who is slipped some drugs at a party. she likes the effect, it makes her feel tall and strong. sadly she becomes addicted to dugs, and debases herslf in many ways to get them.

alice don't give it away... , but she does and she dies


Charming...

I believe there is a story about a white middleclass teenager, a shy girl who debases herself in many ways to feed her habit.

But I can't see anything that would suggest she was slipped drugs and I certainly can't see anything in the song that would suggest she dies.

You've made me curious now, can you show me where you got the idea that she was slipped the drugs and that she dies?
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Obviousman
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PostPost #8  Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Motz wrote:
Don't be silly, there's no such thing as religion.

Christianity is by virtue of it's teachings a faith and anything which teaches contrary to the Church's beliefs is a cult.

[/anal-retentive pedant]


Ah, well, it's all about giving it a name...

I think one of the main differences between religion and superstition is that numero uno is (more or less, perhaps even badly) organised, and numero due is more about doing your own thing...

Thanks for bringing Jefferson Airplane and Alice in Wonderland in to this too guys! Figured that link out too before, but as I just typed this as it popped into my mind, I didn't think of that one Wink

The personal versions are very nice too, I must say, always curious about such things...
I think in mine she's a quiet and shy but very attractive girl as well, affraid to get away from the wall she's standing against, after which some guy slips her the drugs, which she don't want to accept at first, but afterwards, she can't live without them either... Perhaps something of a 'bad trip' in there too?
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Obviousman
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PostPost #9  Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

paint it black wrote:
go ask alice is not alice in wonderland but is the inspiration for white rabbit

<---------- Rolling Eyes


So tell us all about it Wink
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PostPost #10  Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

paint it black wrote:
go ask alice is not alice in wonderland but is the inspiration for white rabbit

<---------- Rolling Eyes


I had never heard of that book.

Now that you've brought it to my attention, it's obvious that that's what Jefferson Airplane was referencing.

But I'm sure they were also referencing Alice in Wonderland, there are too many similarities between White Rabbit and Alice in Wonderland to dismiss the idea that it was influenced by the book.

I reckon it was most likely influenced by both books.
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nick the stripper
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PostPost #11  Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Obviousman wrote:
paint it black wrote:
go ask alice is not alice in wonderland but is the inspiration for white rabbit

<---------- Rolling Eyes


So tell us all about it Wink


I've just looked the book up.

It's basically the diary of a girl who live in the 60's experimenting with LSD and gaining a habit, or something along the lines of that.

As far as I can tell from what I've read about it, the diary is a real diary and that's why the author is called Anonymous.

Some schools in America used it as propaganda to make kids scared of drugs.
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The Knave
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PostPost #12  Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

nick the stripper wrote:

I've just looked the book up.
...
As far as I can tell from what I've read about it, the diary is a real diary and that's why the author is called Anonymous.


It's not real. A whole series of cautionary books along the same lines were written by Dr. Beatrice Sparks in order to "persuade" people not to do the things in them. To start with they were published as "Anonymous", then with Dr. Sparks credited as the editor. Later they said that she actually wrote all of them herself, but did it from "case histories", which was bollocks. If you read any of them it becomes obvious!

Alice was (I think) the first, and there were a bunch of others. I have one called "Jay's Journal" sitting a few feet away, it's about this boy who gets involved with DRUGS and SATANISM and OUIJA BOARDS!

They're all pretty amusing reads.

http://www.rickwalton.com/utahauth/bsparks.htm
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The Knave
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PostPost #13  Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 11:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Here's more:

http://www.snopes.com/language/literary/askalice.asp
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dead stars
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PostPost #14  Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 3:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Could anyone post the correct lyrics for Alice? I've come across several versions, some of which from sites that are no longer online.
Thanks.

I'm interested in the detail if there is the word "tranqs" in the real lyrics.
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PostPost #15  Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

dead stars wrote:
Could anyone post the correct lyrics for Alice? I've come across several versions, some of which from sites that are no longer online.
Thanks.

I'm interested in the detail if there is the word "tranqs" in the real lyrics.


"TRANKS" - according to "Postcards From Above The Chemist" book Our fearless leader!
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spiggy kurtz
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PostPost #16  Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

nick the stripper wrote:
I always thought the song was about escapism and that in the line you mentioned Von was showing the similarities between religion and drugs.


Religion is opium for the people. Marx & Engels.
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Obviousman
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PostPost #17  Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2005 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Another 'Alice in Wonderland'

clicky

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PostPost #18  Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2005 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Obviousman wrote:
Another 'Alice in Wonderland'

clicky

Laughing Laughing


a porn version?

"phallus in wonderland" perhaps? It wasn't me...
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PostPost #19  Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2005 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

eastmidswhizzkid wrote:
a porn version?

"phallus in wonderland" perhaps? It wasn't me...


Yeah Laughing Actually a porn musical Laughing

Perhaps it's Von's funny explanation Wink

Just read about it in my fave magazine (which is not at all a porn mag, by the way Razz ).
Apparently in this version Alice's dress does not shrink, '9. 7/8' on Mad Hatter's hat is about the length of his phallus, and the Queen of Hearts does not long for Alice's head but for the head of Alice
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PostPost #20  Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 1:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Because of my insomnia and the flow of the topics, I have a few thoughts to share...
a.) Alice in Wonderland - The reference to the name Alice takes me back a decade and a half to a small underground club on the streets of JHB called Alice D and the association with drugs and the LSD kind in that time We are not worthy! It wasn't me... Our fearless leader!
Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds - going even further back Kiss

b.) Religion reminds me of the days with my nose in the books of Stephen King We are not worthy! and Dean R. Koonz and the games that are played and puns found in everyday life = fuel for the soul!!!

c.) If you are going to play with Black Magic make sure you know what you are doing. I like the Whiter shade of that and a cup of tea with the lit candles and the question of what I can do for you! Our fearless leader!

d.) In all dimentions of black and white the grey areas are where the smokers hang around and under/around/beneath/above little funny creatures making you loose your mind. Make sure with your head in the clouds that your feet are still touching the ground. Wink Kiss MB
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dead stars
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PostPost #21  Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 1:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

pikkrong wrote:
dead stars wrote:
Could anyone post the correct lyrics for Alice? I've come across several versions, some of which from sites that are no longer online.
Thanks.

I'm interested in the detail if there is the word "tranqs" in the real lyrics.


"TRANKS" - according to "Postcards From Above The Chemist" book Our fearless leader!


Being the same as tranquilisers, no?
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PostPost #22  Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

dead stars wrote:
pikkrong wrote:
dead stars wrote:
Could anyone post the correct lyrics for Alice? I've come across several versions, some of which from sites that are no longer online.
Thanks.

I'm interested in the detail if there is the word "tranqs" in the real lyrics.


"TRANKS" - according to "Postcards From Above The Chemist" book Our fearless leader!


Being the same as tranquilisers, no?


I think so. But what do I know about English... It wasn't me...
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nick the stripper
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PostPost #23  Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Yep. In the first verse it's pills, in the second verse it's tranquilisers.
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aims
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PostPost #24  Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Other way round Wink
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nick the stripper
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PostPost #25  Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2005 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Yep. In the first verse it's tranquilisers, in the second verse it's pills. Wink
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