Heartland

just wanted to address a few points made elsewhere without unnecessarily clogging up the 2005 archive.

ocean moves had made a comment about the lack of ''surprise oldies'' and new material in setlists of recent years;and the abscence of a new album. chairman bux replied that ''the sisters play what the sisters like'' and that they ''wouldn't want to spoil you anymore than they do already''.a bit arrogant and evasive but what do you expect...?
this drew the following responses:

shivarising wrote:Not gonna shell out .....to see a new hairstyle and some new kid with dodgy sideburns.continued patronage of such events will only keep von thinking ''..i never have to release anything again.I'll at least have money for a new shirt."

fact is,von doesn't have to do anything again,if he doesn't want to.not ever.he obviously doesn't need the cash,or we'ld hve already had a new album -as soon as the east/west shambles was over.in fact the east/west shambles would have never happened if von couldn't aford to dig his heels in and go on strike.what the exact reasons are for lack of product are his own.we can hope for as long as we want but don't hold your breath.
when you pay to see the sisters you are paying to see the sisters!.new haircuts and guitarists are secondary trivialities;and anyway,par for the course.if you don't want to see them live,fine;but low attendance leads to lack of promoter-confidence,leads to no uk tour -and,currently, venue down-sizing in zurich.make the most of them while you can.

ocean moves wrote:..these new tracks....they *must* play ...''to show that we're not [just] a retrospective nostalgic band''.

but as OM says after,these are no longer new tracks.they've been playing them live for years.''crash and burn'',''....(suzanne)'' and ''summer'' etc. have become firm favourites with fans.eldritch isn't trying to/doesn't need to prove anything.he never has.if that's all the sisters ever do from now on -play nostalgic retrospective live shows- that's better than them ceasing to exist.make the most of them while you can.

blood money wrote:take all the sisters songs.....remove all songs which ....will put any money in any maor label's pocket....have one or two lines of Huss in them...are not really suited for live performances....only stuff like rain from heaven,on the wire and teachers is left.

firstly you do not have to pay any royalties to anyone for playing stuff live.not your own stuff,not other peoples.and at the last gig before joseph's well (blank canvas,leeds) they played "marian." (probably the best track hussey co-wrote).they also played ''valentine''.occasionly something like ''kiss the carpet'' gets an airing.''on the wire'' is a classic from the hussey days and ''teachers'' was in the sisters set in the dawn of time (although i would personally prefer to hear them played seperately.) and you now get to hear TOL all the time.and anaconda.the sets have always gone through periods of basic similarity.start worrying when that's not the case.when they have stopped playing altogether.make the most of them while you can.

Agree with the album-stuff, if he needed the money it'd been there,... He knows we're crazy enough to buy whatever rubish he comes up with, doesn't he

New songs... Well, lets see about that tonight

And about point number three, I wouldn't have a clue

Obviousman wrote:Agree with the album-stuff, if he needed the money it'd been there,... He knows we're crazy enough to buy whatever rubish he comes up with, doesn't he

but i'ld like to think he's a man of integrity,with enough respect for himself and us,not to do that;even for the money.and IMO nothing he's put out yet has been rubbish.sure,opinions vary as to different aspects of the music,and individual favourites/pet-hates:but i don't think many HLers would say any of it was rubbish.

Hope he's a man of integrity too, and of course, he didn't put out rubbish yet, but it could be possible, isn't it? Completists etc...

I could comment on much of this but one thing really jumped out at me...

eastmidswhizzkid wrote: i'ld like to think he's a man of integrity

I've seen the Sisters at least once on every UK tour since 1983 . It does get a bit boring to keep hearing exactly the same criticisms over and over. The dates I did on the Black October tour in 84 were probably the high point for me but it's 21 years later & to think they're going to sound the same now is stupid. We all have a favourite period but you can't take a snapshot of anything in life & make it stand still forever.
"they're not as good as they were" - don't go and see them then
"they're not playing any new stuff" - don't go and see them then

This is what they sound like at this moment in time, if some don't like it - tough titty , that's the way it is, stop whining on about it.*

Of course I prefer the raw sound from the early days & on Tuesday they didn't sound like that but once they got rolling it was a really good night. They started a little slowly but a few songs in it picked up & by the end they were storming along. When people who went say it was crap but they knew it would be - why the f**k did they go ?

They may never write another new song , if that bothers you don't go to see them .

* telling goths to stop whining is like telling Jamie Oliver to try to keep his spit inside his fat tongued mouth.

biggy wrote:
"They're not as good as they were" - don't go and see them then.
"They're not playing any new stuff" - don't go and see them then.

They may never write another new song , if that bothers you don't go to see them.

Judging by some of the attendances for the Smoke & Mirrors tour many fans have already reached that conclusion
and voted accordingly.

Truthfully, it is no less than a fucking miracle that the Sisters still exist twenty-four years on in any form.
Full marks to Eldritch for never having to get a "real" job - I'm intensely jealous!

Sadly, next year's XXV tour will probably take in The Royal Park Cellars & King Tuts!

biggy wrote: but you can't take a snapshot of anything in life & make it stand still forever.

Oh I don't know...some people are rather good at taking the odd snap

I know exactly what you mean Biggy. I get mightly fed up with people whingeing and whining that 'oooh it's not the same, it's not as good as it was blah di blah' * If that's the case then just keep away and let those of us who do like to keep going, get nearer the front.

* Not just applicable to the Sisters

I disagree with the idea that "new guitarists are secondary trivialities". The guitarists are what helped make the Sisters. Gary, Ben, and then Wayne, they shaped the early Sisters through FALAA, and all the VT-era guitarists made the album as good as they could.
How many people have claimed how good a guitarist Mr Whammy is? They're not joking, he is a great guitarist, and Chris May sounds equally good.
It's all very well not having guitars or bassists if you find them "secondary trivialities", but every Sisters album has needed them, and they shaped the band with each change.

Also, Von talked to the fans at Joseph's Well, and bought Mr Sinister a drink, and had his picture taken with you.
This goes against his usual behaviour (better-than-thou egomaniacal user). Maybe he's going to realise that goths aren't there to annoy him.
Perhaps he's started to be a more amicable person, whether this will affect him musically or not is unimportant. Any improvement in his character is a good thing.

Dark wrote:I disagree with the idea that "new guitarists are secondary trivialities". The guitarists are what helped make the Sisters. Gary, Ben, and then Wayne, they shaped the early Sisters through FALAA, and all the VT-era guitarists made the album as good as they could.
How many people have claimed how good a guitarist Mr Whammy is? They're not joking, he is a great guitarist, and Chris May sounds equally good.
It's all very well not having guitars or bassists if you find them "secondary trivialities", but every Sisters album has needed them, and they shaped the band with each change.
.

you misunderstand me dark.i am not saying that the appointment of new guitarists is trivial,or that the role they play is anything other than integral to defining that particular version of the band -only that people who whinge about the new boy and vons new haircut being all they are getting for their money (as shiva rising was) are forgetting the fact that that what there money buys them is a live gig by the sisters.if there was no new guitarist and no new haircut woulld everyone say "whats the point -i've seen them before"? of course not.re-read my response in context to what i'm responding to.

i agree completely with Biggy. And for those who've voted by not going to see them on Smoke and Mirrors tour, good for them, but that hardly makes Sisters any less brilliant than they truly still are for those who think so.

i wasn't sure wether anyone would bother reading such a long post (of mine especially!).but i was really irritated by the attitude of the whingers and it's good to know i'm not the only one who values the band for exactly what they are at any given time,as well as for their history.'cause if you hadn't guessed i fuckin' love the sisters.

itnAklipse wrote:i agree completely with Biggy.

Not something I hear very often

I'll keep going to see 'em as long as I can.

'nuff said.

Re: "The Sisters play what The Sisters like."

Well it's a good job we like it too isn't it?

to you Mr Whizzkid.

i like the sisters too .
i think it was rather nice of von and the lads to play for free.thanks chaps
most bands the same age as the sisters have tended to dissappeared in a rectally direction .

eastmidswhizzkid wrote:

blood money wrote:take all the sisters songs.....remove all songs which ....will put any money in any maor label's pocket....have one or two lines of Huss in them...are not really suited for live performances....only stuff like rain from heaven,on the wire and teachers is left.

firstly you do not have to pay any royalties to anyone for playing stuff live.not your own stuff,not other peoples.and at the last gig before joseph's well (blank canvas,leeds) they played "marian." (probably the best track hussey co-wrote).they also played ''valentine''.occasionly something like ''kiss the carpet'' gets an airing.''on the wire'' is a classic from the hussey days and ''teachers'' was in the sisters set in the dawn of time (although i would personally prefer to hear them played seperately.) and you now get to hear TOL all the time.and anaconda.the sets have always gone through periods of basic similarity.start worrying when that's not the case.when they have stopped playing altogether.make the most of them while you can.

While I could'nt care less being called "ridiculous and cynical", being "on the autistic spectrum and anally retentive", "stuck in the past", "has to complain anyways" or handed orange bags (that is mine, itnAklipse), I am not ok with being misquoted:

There are rolalities due once you burn your live performance on a DVD and attempt selling it. Then, On the wire is "words and music by eldritch" (according to this site http://www.lyricsdownload.com/sisters-o ... yrics.html). And teachers and anaconda confirms the no-royality, no huss argument.

Most importantly, you just cherry-picked my post to make your argument, and omitted

blood money wrote: Let's add one or two classics for the sake of it, FALAA and ToL, alltrough that contradicts the "can not play it live" and sometimes the "no Huss*" directive above,[..]) and you have the combined setlists of the last 5 years.

Let's be charitable and call it an omission by mistake, rather than intention.

so much for the flaming, mate.

I would start worring once they stop playing live, as you do.. As noted in another post, it IS spectacular when a band fills a place like the x-tra in Zurich, with no album and 45EUR entrance, PLUS considering that last time in zurich '01 they delivered a very very low performance. However, I've heard absolutly nobody saying something along the lines of "cool, I am looking forward to hear crash&burn", or "wow, there is a new note in falaa". All non-sisterholics, the main part of the audience by large, were disappointed about the setlist, with "this dwarf didnt even play 9while9" (I agree this one is ridiculous..) on the upper end on the spectrum of comments.

being so damn sensible about his past (goth-) songs doesn't help eldo, in fact, it shut the door in the US and the UK already, and now this ever going down spiral continues with the austria downsizing. Eldo is now farter away from "stadium band" (not to mention an album) then ever, thanks to his setlists and attitude. So my frustration about the setlist is based on this: eldo continues like this -> non-addiced audience stays away -> smaller venues -> no bookings -> eldo is pissed -> eldo retires -> no more sis concerts.

for what its worth...

bloodmoney wrote:
While I could'nt care less being called ...being "on the autistic spectrum and anally retentive", ...

Am glad about that - was only EVER meant in jest.

bloodmoney wrote:

eastmidswhizzkid wrote:

blood money wrote:take all the sisters songs.....remove all songs which ....will put any money in any maor label's pocket....have one or two lines of Huss in them...are not really suited for live performances....only stuff like rain from heaven,on the wire and teachers is left.

firstly you do not have to pay any royalties to anyone for playing stuff live.not your own stuff,not other peoples.and at the last gig before joseph's well (blank canvas,leeds) they played "marian." (probably the best track hussey co-wrote).they also played ''valentine''.occasionly something like ''kiss the carpet'' gets an airing.''on the wire'' is a classic from the hussey days and ''teachers'' was in the sisters set in the dawn of time (although i would personally prefer to hear them played seperately.) and you now get to hear TOL all the time.and anaconda.the sets have always gone through periods of basic similarity.start worrying when that's not the case.when they have stopped playing altogether.make the most of them while you can.

While I could'nt care less being called "ridiculous and cynical", being "on the autistic spectrum and anally retentive", "stuck in the past", "has to complain anyways" or handed orange bags (that is mine, itnAklipse), I am not ok with being misquoted:

There are rolalities due once you burn your live performance on a DVD and attempt selling it. Then, On the wire is "words and music by eldritch" (according to this site http://www.lyricsdownload.com/sisters-o ... yrics.html). And teachers and anaconda confirms the no-royality, no huss argument.

Most importantly, you just cherry-picked my post to make your argument, and omitted

blood money wrote: Let's add one or two classics for the sake of it, FALAA and ToL, alltrough that contradicts the "can not play it live" and sometimes the "no Huss*" directive above,[..]) and you have the combined setlists of the last 5 years.

Let's be charitable and call it an omission by mistake, rather than intention.

so much for the flaming, mate.

I would start worring once they stop playing live, as you do.. As noted in another post, it IS spectacular when a band fills a place like the x-tra in Zurich, with no album and 45EUR entrance, PLUS considering that last time in zurich '01 they delivered a very very low performance. However, I've heard absolutly nobody saying something along the lines of "cool, I am looking forward to hear crash&burn", or "wow, there is a new note in falaa". All non-sisterholics, the main part of the audience by large, were disappointed about the setlist, with "this dwarf didnt even play 9while9" (I agree this one is ridiculous..) on the upper end on the spectrum of comments.

being so damn sensible about his past (goth-) songs doesn't help eldo, in fact, it shut the door in the US and the UK already, and now this ever going down spiral continues with the austria downsizing. Eldo is now farter away from "stadium band" (not to mention an album) then ever, thanks to his setlists and attitude. So my frustration about the setlist is based on this: eldo continues like this -> non-addiced audience stays away -> smaller venues -> no bookings -> eldo is pissed -> eldo retires -> no more sis concerts.

for what its worth...

Maybe you're from the same cynical old school as myself but I think most the points you make are valid.

If they do (not holding breath) release an album it's never going to be the gate way to restoring the plan for world domination and is never going to massively increase their gig venue capacities. It would be great for die hards to get the album they have so patiently been waiting to hear but how many kids (apologies Motz and Dark!) have even heard of them or will hear of them from the low key release of an independent album?

Does he have to pay royalties for The Reptile House? How special would it be to hear all of the songs on that?

But he is, and always will be, his own boss and nothing anybody (even those closest to him one would guess) will change that. We're stuck with what we've got.

eastmidswhizzkid wrote: i was really irritated by the attitude of the whingers and it's good to know i'm not the only one who values the band for exactly what they are at any given time,as well as for their history.'cause if you hadn't guessed i fuckin' love the sisters.

Completely with you there Mr Whizzkid. & what I love most ( apart from them being the best live band I have ever, ever seen ) is that they don't do all the things people whinge about them not doing.

1985 is twenty years ago. If an old bag like me can get over it there's hope for all....and I realise this will likely prompt someone to say 'actually they haven't been any good since 1982' or whatever. In which case please don't waste any more of your life on them.Go and do something less boring instead.

I am nothing like I was then (sadly... ) it would be ridiculous to expect anyone else to be. I am just glad that at last seems a bit more comfy with the punters & so on. Took long enough...

Fingers crossed for February.

straylight wrote:

eastmidswhizzkid wrote: i was really irritated by the attitude of the whingers and it's good to know i'm not the only one who values the band for exactly what they are at any given time,as well as for their history.'cause if you hadn't guessed i fuckin' love the sisters.

Completely with you there Mr Whizzkid. & what I love most ( apart from them being the best live band I have ever, ever seen ) is that they don't do all the things people whinge about them not doing.

1985 is twenty years ago. If an old bag like me can get over it there's hope for all....and I realise this will likely prompt someone to say 'actually they haven't been any good since 1982' or whatever. In which case please don't waste any more of your life on them.Go and do something less boring instead.

I am nothing like I was then (sadly... ) it would be ridiculous to expect anyone else to be. I am just glad that at last seems a bit more comfy with the punters & so on. Took long enough...

Fingers crossed for February.

ditto to both of the above

Well said Stray. Imagine what it's like for me, I was born in eighty-five. I must be the only person in this barren outpost of reality who likes the Sisters and isn't old enough to have seen them first time around.

Doesn't stop me from being quietly, utterly devoted. I know I've breached my own 'nuff said' law, but it had to be done.

timsinister wrote:Well said Stray. Imagine what it's like for me, I was born in eighty-five. I must be the only person in this barren outpost of reality who likes the Sisters and isn't old enough to have seen them first time around.

Doesn't stop me from being quietly, utterly devoted. I know I've breached my own 'nuff said' law, but it had to be done.

I think there are people even younger than you around here....Some of them are only 15 and frighteningly articulate.

The future is is safe hands.

Messrs. Dark and Motz are already building the anthems of tomorrow at such a tender age. I wish them every luck.

Thanks for the faith in us.

And thank YOU all for the faith in us.

I think it's safe to say that songs by 15/16 year olds who are Sisters fans are quite likely to be good songs for the future.