Heartland

Hi peeps,

I have several mysterious recordings and you, yes, you can certainly help to shed some light on them. Oh, but before we start, a short warning: I'm in a seriously bad mood today - for several reasons - it's not your fault, I know, but just to keep things simple: Please don't post tracklists, as I already have plenty of references. And please don't get me wrong: I'm not looking for trades - that's why I post in this section and not in the other. What I need are people who could give certain of their recordings a listen and then answer my questions. These are the rules, and I apologise for my rudeness. Now to the mysteries:

1. Bradford, 4th January 1983: Do they play Body Electric after Anaconda/before Sister Ray? If not, what other recording could this be?

2. London, 19th February 1983: Do they play Sister Ray after 1969? If not, what other recording could this be?

3. London, 24th May 1984: Do they play Body Electric and Sister Ray after Alice? If not, what other recording could this be?

4. What is this recording: Allegedly "Stoned Immaculate", with the following tracklist: Kiss the Carpet + Alice + Anaconda + Burn + Jolene + Heartland + Valentine + Adrenochrome + Floorshow + Gimme Shelter + Body Electric

5. What is this recording: Allegedly "Tender Mercies", with the following tracklist: Valentine + Temple of Love + Heartland + Emma + Adrenochrome + Floorshow + Body Electric + Gimme Shelter + Kiss the Carpet

6. What is this recording? Tracklist: Burn + Valentine + Anaconda + Temple of Love + Adrenochrome + Kiss the Carpet + Body Electric + Emma + Sister Ray (or Louie, Louie)/Ghostrider

Thank you very much!

Not at home so can't confirm these but;

1 Not according to by list (which isn't 100%) but that is where they were playing it in the set then :/
2 Computer says yes. Birmingham 21st Jan was the same set, I think.
3 My list stops at Alice, would have to check the disc to see if I have more
4 is possibly 24th April 83
5 & 6 look like edits of full-set recordings, possibly one of the October '83 dates?

Any use?

Tender Mercies is recorded in San Francisco, I Beam on 31 Oct 83. Sadly it's a few songs short of the complete set...

Thank you both very much.

@ czuczu: about 4 possibly being 24. 4. 1983: I've thought of that too, but it can only be the case, if the Sisters played Valentine after Heartland/before Adrenochrome. But none of the tracklists I've checked shows Valentine...

@ radiojamaica: Yes, that's what it is labelled as. But according to Hallucienate's site the tracklist for SF, 31st October 83, is: Burn + Valentine + Anaconda + Temple of Love + Heartland + Emma + Adrenochrome + Floorshow + Body Electric + Gimme Shelter + Kiss the Carpet + Alice.
Tender Mercies is missing Burn, Anaconda and Alice. It seems strange to me that tracks from the beginning, the middle and the end are missing. Usually a "cut" gig is missing tracks from the beginning or the end.

Did you have a look here Eva?

http://db.tsom.org/concerts/index.html

Eva wrote:4. What is this recording: Allegedly "Stoned Immaculate", with the following tracklist: Kiss the Carpet + Alice + Anaconda + Burn + Jolene + Heartland + Valentine + Adrenochrome + Floorshow + Gimme Shelter + Body Electric

This one is usually associated with 6 May 1983 in London. I do not recall it having any other date associated with it. The tracklist seems to match what you have as well.

@ Ozpat: Thanks a lot for the link , I hadn't checked that site before. Now I have. Result: 1 problem (not mentioned above) has been solved, 2 new ones have been created....

@Petseri: Thank you very much, that's another problem solved.

Question: Is there an absolute truth to be known about all known recordings of all known gigs, or is it better not to try and find out too much? In other words: Is there one absolutely correct tracklist for all gigs or is the only truth to be known the one about Murphy's Law?

In any case: you guys have improved my mood a lot. Thank you all very much.

Tracklists of bootlegs (might be of some help):

http://www.darkalice.de/

http://home.pages.at/visionthing/

Christer's old site (sisterstrading.com) used to be very helpful. [Warning: It is no longer a reference site for TSOM recordings.] He would go into details on various recordings and pressings. Unfortunately, doing searchers there recently via archives.org has been hit or miss. Are they deleting some links? Does anyone have a copy saved somehow or know how to contact Christer? Has anyone even had contact with him in the past two or threee years?

Although the link sounds familiar I don't recall a Christer. I used to rely on Halluciuenate's, PiB's and Stu's site, but Stu's doesn't exist anymore, and the other two - especially in combination with the one Ozpat mentioned first - tend to increase my confusion, although they're very helpful most of the time...

Wouldn't it be a good idea to create such a list of correct tracklistings here somewhere on Heartland? I know it's a lot of work, but if the people who own recordings got together and agreed on each of them (I include myself) working on a certain separate pile of stuff I think it should be feasible. Part of the work would also be to go through the tracklistings of all available weeds by listening to the respective recordings (which means that even the newbies can contribute to this job), because there are some mistakes in these too, as I sadly had to find out (no offence meant, just a tiny bit of self pity ). I believe that there would remain just a few "mysterious recordings" to discuss and compare, and at the same time it'd be a huge help for anybody who wants/needs to check their recordings.

And yes, I still believe in the existence of an absolute and pure truth.

Last I time I saw Christer was at Arvika in '02 - I think he was still heavily into his studies, not seen or heard a peep since..
Eva, you should have my new URL now? I guarantee it'll still be frustratingly inaccurate when it matters most
I am slowly fixing it though. Even the tours.tsom isn't accurate for some of it's setlists... (Noticed Berlin '01 is incorrect the other day)

czuczu wrote:
Eva, you should have my new URL now?

Er... No, I don't.

Eva wrote:

czuczu wrote:
Eva, you should have my new URL now?

Er... No, I don't.

You do now

If anyone is still in touch with Andy they may be able to get in touch with Christer?
Robin's site was pretty definitive (and tape based so a lot more accurate than all this different versions of CDs nonsense), wasn't he offering to retrieve it so it could be hosted?

sorry Eva, i feel most flattered that i've been mentioned

but my site was always a reference, never said to be right and in the meantime, meant i found life, which is altogether more accurate and rarely wrong. thnaks to HAL as always for hosting, i owe you bigtime sometime mate but hopefully you understand with amber and all

1. Bradford, 4th January 1983: Do they play Body Electric after Anaconda/before Sister Ray?
Yes. The person's tape ran out near the very end of Body Electric so when it was released on bootleg album they missed this song off.

2. London, 19th February 1983: Do they play Sister Ray after 1969?
Yes.

3. London, 24th May 1984: Do they play Body Electric and Sister Ray after Alice?
Yes.

4. What is this recording: Allegedly "Stoned Immaculate", with the following tracklist: Kiss the Carpet + Alice + Anaconda + Burn + Jolene + Heartland + Valentine + Adrenochrome + Floorshow + Gimme Shelter + Body Electric
I've never heard of Stoned Immaculate. A Google search brings up one site that has it as 6-May-83 which matches my cassette. Yeah! cassettes! Oldskool!.

5. What is this recording: Allegedly "Tender Mercies", with the following tracklist: Valentine + Temple of Love + Heartland + Emma + Adrenochrome + Floorshow + Body Electric + Gimme Shelter + Kiss the Carpet
San Fransisco I-Beam 31.10.83. The taper had problems, missing the first song, and also an incomplete Anaconda (after Valentine) and an incomplete Alice as the last song, which were edited out of the bootleg LP release. A complete version (but not as good quality) from a different source also exists which starts with Burn.

6. What is this recording? Tracklist: Burn + Valentine + Anaconda + Temple of Love + Adrenochrome + Kiss the Carpet + Body Electric + Emma + Sister Ray (or Louie, Louie)/Ghostrider
An edited, all songs in the wrong order version of Munster 1.9.83 from a bootleg LP... only IT'S NOT MUNSTER. The complete recording of this gig was traded for years as Munster but in fact it's Hamburg KIR 31.8.83. Compare your Munster with your Hamburg KIR folks, many people will find they're the same. A real recording of Munster does exist though.

When I did a lot of collecting I preferred the tapes to the bootleg LP's. The LP's aren't worth s**t when they mess with the track order and edit them about.

Dan wrote:4. What is this recording: Allegedly "Stoned Immaculate", with the following tracklist: Kiss the Carpet + Alice + Anaconda + Burn + Jolene + Heartland + Valentine + Adrenochrome + Floorshow + Gimme Shelter + Body Electric
I've never heard of Stoned Immaculate. A Google search brings up one site that has it as 6-May-83 which matches my cassette. Yeah! cassettes! Oldskool!.

http://myheartland.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5884

I bought it off of ebay and then weeded it.

Thank you all very much for your kind help people!
It'll take me a while to go through all the information you've given me, cause I've been away to see NMA (I'd nearly forgotten what a fantastic band they are ). And I appreciate it very much that you've taken the time to help me.

More questions might follow when I've had the time to check 84, 85 etc....