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I feel cheated - Sisters using DAT
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DJ Ęternum
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PostPost #1  Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 9:47 am    Post subject: I feel cheated - Sisters using DAT Reply with quote Back to top

As it turns out, The Sisters of Mercy did their whole show on February 18th in Phoenix via digital audio tape. I really didn't want to believe it, but there are several giveaways. First, there was a large mixer on stage left, if one watched, one noticed that the sound guy would adjust faders on the mixer (looked to be about 120 channels) when a little signal light would come on, which would then go off. Next, one of the guitarists (one with the mohawk) was facing his amp to get feedback, however the feedback was heard about 2 seconds *after* he would strike his strings (although he didn't always strike his strings during the show) - while this could be chalked up to 100% delay - none of the rest of his riffs that song had much delay, nor would 100% delay explain it, since the feedback was very obviously not being caused by his playing. Then, there's Andrew, who aside from seeming to want to imitate a rapper with his gesticulations, clearly wasn't singing what was being heard at the time (especially the screams/held out notes). Evidently this has been a fifteen year phenomenon, so I was told. I don't want to believe it, but certainly this show was just DAT tapes played back.
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itnAklipse
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PostPost #2  Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

With the amount of mistakes Eldritch does during singing, and the fact that his singing always varies to begin with (even if he had many DAT tapes, he would never be able to remember how he was supposed to scream and sing in _this_ one this time), for example the screams are never the same from one concert to another, i don't believe this. There's also many times of mic failing etc... i don't know about this tour in particular, but since you say that this has been going on for 15 years, i can say with almost 100% certainty that it doesn't make sense and you're wrong.
i don't know about the guitar feedback stuff, but also the evidence of that one i seriously doubt.

PS: If you ask me, it's people who are not used to talented professionals on stage who find it hard to believe that someone who actually sounds good etc would be doing it the hard way.
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tooyoung
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PostPost #3  Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Having been standing about 6 feet from Ben, I can guarentee you that he was really playing. The same with Andrew's singing, which was clearly not tapes.
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DJ Ęternum
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PostPost #4  Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I can't vouch for the fifteen years thing, but I figured I'd throw it out there for verification.

Having been front and center with a good view of everything, this is what I noticed, which corroborated the opinion of the GREAT MAJORITY of the crowd - especially all the local musicians and DJs, myself included. I didn't want to believe it was true, nor do I want to, but it seems that the Phoenix show, at least, was entirely pre-recorded DAT tape. Things may or may not be different for other shows - I can't speak for those. And it's not because I want to be cynical or skeptical - I didn't want to see this, and I know that the Sisters easily could/should have sounded as good (if not much better) than the DAT tapes played.
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gabrielle
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PostPost #5  Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

The first poster is 100% correct - the entire show was on a loop and was a HUGE rip-off. I have been a SOM fan for over 2 decades and had never seen them live, so I was really looking forward to seeing them. However, it was obvious 2 songs into their set that they were not playing live. This was clearly demonstrated when the fan with the backpack jumped onto the stage and Andrew said something into the mic afterward and it was at a completely different volume then what he had been singing at. Not only do I feel ripped off, but I'm not sure I will be able to listen to their music again anytime soon without thinking of Ashlee Simpson or Milli Vanilli.
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tooyoung
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PostPost #6  Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

This is clear flaming from one individual. The performance was obviously live. Maybe some people aren't aware that a drum machine and sequenced bass are sometimes used.
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itnAklipse
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PostPost #7  Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Yeah, both first time posters... :/
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dtsom
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PostPost #8  Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I don“t believe it...

and for what reason do they do that?Confused?
I“ve seen them 5 times and all of them in the firs rows and I always could see that they were playing live.
as I sayd before I don“t believe it!!!!
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Obviousman
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PostPost #9  Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Go sell your rubbish elsewhere

If you're into the Sisters you might just know they use a Drum Computer which also takes care of the bass...

It's live, otherwise Our fearless leader! wouldn't be spending his money on training two new guitarists, and I've seen them live from the front row last year too, and it was genuinely live.

Ach, last year in Lokeren people were talking this nonsense too Rolling Eyes
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Ocean Moves
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PostPost #10  Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 1:00 pm    Post subject: Re: I feel cheated - Sisters using DAT Reply with quote Back to top

Laughing
This is what happens when the Sisters play in the States.

Personally I'd rather hear the 's**t, I've had an idea, why don't the
Sisters get a drummer' speeches myself.

Go home and watch the x files re-runs.

DJ Ęternum wrote:
As it turns out, The Sisters of Mercy did their whole show on February 18th in Phoenix via digital audio tape. I really didn't want to believe it, but there are several giveaways. First, there was a large mixer on stage left, if one watched, one noticed that the sound guy would adjust faders on the mixer (looked to be about 120 channels) when a little signal light would come on, which would then go off. Next, one of the guitarists (one with the mohawk) was facing his amp to get feedback, however the feedback was heard about 2 seconds *after* he would strike his strings (although he didn't always strike his strings during the show) - while this could be chalked up to 100% delay - none of the rest of his riffs that song had much delay, nor would 100% delay explain it, since the feedback was very obviously not being caused by his playing. Then, there's Andrew, who aside from seeming to want to imitate a rapper with his gesticulations, clearly wasn't singing what was being heard at the time (especially the screams/held out notes). Evidently this has been a fifteen year phenomenon, so I was told. I don't want to believe it, but certainly this show was just DAT tapes played back.
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Drenchrom
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PostPost #11  Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I like many people have seen them dozens of times and have never had the feeling that they were miming (too many mistakes!!!). Bass and drums via the Dr, but the singing on DAT? Don't make me laugh.

Eldritch as a rapper? His been making those hand gestures for a long time. As Ocean Moves says this is what happens when The Sisters play in the states!

Just because they didn't play Body & Soul or wear black velvet. Lighten up people, I've got to wait weeks before I can get to see them.

Matt..
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PostPost #12  Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Stop me, uh uh uh stop me, stop me if you think that you've....etc.

SPANNER! And as Mr Blast might add....NEXT!
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Ozpat
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PostPost #13  Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Obviousman wrote:
Go sell your rubbish elsewhere

If you're into the Sisters you might just know they use a Drum Computer which also takes care of the bass...

It's live, otherwise Our fearless leader! wouldn't be spending his money on training two new guitarists, and I've seen them live from the front row last year too, and it was genuinely live.

Ach, last year in Lokeren people were talking this nonsense too Rolling Eyes


I've been visiting their gigs for 13 years now and none of the gigs are the same. They all sound different. I've heard heaps of recordings and they also sound all different. Prerecorded? Yeah right, he wouldn't have used Burn then in Amsterdam 2003 because it sounds like Andrew just didn't reach the high notes. Lokeren 2005 had a different Emma. IMO it was improvised as he starts singing very late during the song. Silver Machine was played once (Losheim 1993), different Sister Ray's (Rendsburg 1997 for example) and I can go on and on and on.
Pre recorded? Ah yes, and I guess the soundchecks as well.
As I said every concert sounds different especially the singing (screaming/yelling parts).

In St. Vith someone said the same because of Andrew moving his lips all the time in a strange way. I told him to watch I Was Wrong at Ronnie's Pop Show in 1991. It wasn't me...

The Doc makes a lot of the sound so that's not new.

People always have been talking nonsense about the Sisters (press, public) and always will!

@ DJ Ęternum: to me it doesn't seem that you made your post for verification. The topic of your thread is "I feel cheated". Evil or Very Mad
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Badlander
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PostPost #14  Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I sometimes like to be a conspiration theorist myself : how about Dj Aeternum AND gabrielle AND the backpacker who got thrown out of the stage are the same person ?! Twisted Evil

Anyway, there's a good way to check whether a band plays on tape or not : do they sometimes bollock it up ? If so, it means they do play live. Laughing
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Ocean Moves
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PostPost #15  Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

DJ Ęternum wrote:

Having been front and center with a good view of everything, this is what I noticed, which corroborated the opinion of the GREAT MAJORITY of the crowd - especially all the local musicians and DJs, myself included


how many of this "great majority of the crowd" did you get to verify this with personally, out of interest?
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Badlander
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PostPost #16  Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

And what some misinformed folks call precorded is just The Doktor grooving and improvising. Wink
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markreed
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PostPost #17  Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Of course the Sisters don't play live. They're robots.

The Sisters play live far more then most bands. Well, maybe not in terms of frequency - but there's more life on stage than on the front row in crushed black velvet looking like failed auditions for "Night of The Spod" anyway. If it was all off tape, Eldo wouldn't bother with guitarists. I've seen enough bum notes, guitar fuckups, missed lyrics, heckles and onstage accidents (band members bumping into each other in a mist of fog and the subsequent sound problems), to know that it isn't a mime job or off DAT. The drums and bass and keyboard textures are 'off DAT', if by DAT you mean supervised by Nurse with a rig full of electric kit.
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Christian
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PostPost #18  Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Come on people - face the facts. Adam told it in an interview with the German Orkus magazine. Now you know why he had to leave the band: He told too much.

Since Von is too shy to stand on stage for a complete show they bought a dummy, some kind of android. So Von can sit at the bar, watch the show and get drunk. Most fans never realized 'cause they are watching the stage only. Once I went too the loo during a gig I saw him, sitting there without shades with a bright smile on his face.

However these androids on stage are pretty dangerous. They do their job while on stage but they have to be blast by plastic explosives after the show. Dangerous job that is (the reason why Chris Sheehan left).

Go figure.


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Badlander
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PostPost #19  Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Replacing human performers with androids ? Isn't that the ultimate Kraftwerk fantasy ? Mr. Green
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PostPost #20  Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Badlander wrote:
Replacing human performers with androids ? Isn't that the ultimate Kraftwerk fantasy ? Mr. Green


Perhaps. Or perhaps its someone talking utter s**t.

Aye, those pesky Androids, thats the biggest problem with the Sisters
right now..


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PostPost #21  Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

The same accusations happened in Detroit in 1999. One of the radio stations were throwing out the accusations that everything was coming off of a DAT.
Of course not realizing that the drums, bass, keyboards, "other sounds", are all handled by the Doctor.

The suggestion that a DAT machine also may include a record button as well as a play button may have eluded them as well Smile
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PostPost #22  Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

in 21 years i have heard/seen/attended hundreds of sisters gigs/boots and the truly awful heights the band can acheive on their bad days just pisses all over any suggestion of miming. what a load of bollocks.
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PostPost #23  Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

eastmidswhizzkid wrote:
in 21 years i have heard/seen/attended hundreds of sisters gigs/boots and the truly awful heights the band can acheive on their bad days just pisses all over any suggestion of miming. what a load of bollocks.


Voilą, as - I believe Quiffy said in Tilburg - never heard a band so prone to have bad gigs one day and storming gigs the next one.

Compare eg. the Tilburg sound to the Lokeren one, completely different, only the suggestion of it being all on tape is just plane ridiculous Rolling Eyes

@ Christian: Laughing We are not worthy! Laughing We are not worthy! Laughing
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PostPost #24  Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 3:35 pm    Post subject: Re: I feel cheated - Sisters using DAT Reply with quote Back to top

DJ Ęternum wrote:
As it turns out, The Sisters of Mercy did their whole show on February 18th in Phoenix via digital audio tape. I really didn't want to believe it, but there are several giveaways. First, there was a large mixer on stage left, if one watched, one noticed that the sound guy would adjust faders on the mixer (looked to be about 120 channels) when a little signal light would come on, which would then go off. Next, one of the guitarists (one with the mohawk) was facing his amp to get feedback, however the feedback was heard about 2 seconds *after* he would strike his strings (although he didn't always strike his strings during the show) - while this could be chalked up to 100% delay - none of the rest of his riffs that song had much delay, nor would 100% delay explain it, since the feedback was very obviously not being caused by his playing. Then, there's Andrew, who aside from seeming to want to imitate a rapper with his gesticulations, clearly wasn't singing what was being heard at the time (especially the screams/held out notes). Evidently this has been a fifteen year phenomenon, so I was told. I don't want to believe it, but certainly this show was just DAT tapes played back.


This is the last excuse that rushes me to leave this country as soon as possible.
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PostPost #25  Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Obviousman wrote:

Compare eg. the Tilburg sound to the Lokeren one, completely different, only the suggestion of it being all on tape is just plane ridiculous Rolling Eyes


And it's starting to p*ss me off. Evil or Very Mad
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