Brussels 11May06 mp3s and resulting sh*tstorm

Have you established a good reputation at HL and got some Sisters stuff to sell or trade with the community? Or are you searching for that elusive ultra rare live bootleg from 1988? Ever had a bad experience with a trader on Ebay? Let us all know here. Outdated threads will be purged over time.

Warning: Newcomers posting here first will be treated like spammers. At least have the courtesy to say hello in General Chat first...
Post Reply
User avatar
markfiend
goriller of form 3b
Posts: 21181
Joined: 11 Nov 2003, 10:55
Location: st custards
Contact:
Contact markfiend

mrgreen wrote:OK. I will stop sharing my shows from now on.
Don't let some foolish comments put you off.

Jeez, someone records a show, risks getting booted out, risks their recording equipment being confiscated, and all some people can do is bitch.

If someone has gone to the trouble to record a concert, and is generous enough to share their recordings, and cares enough about what people listen to to ask that no lossless copies are distributed, so that everyone gets as good a copy as possible, the least people can do is respect that person's wishes and not start spreading mp3s around.

I take it you won't be participating in weeding any more then Badlander?

For fcuks sake...
The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.
—Bertrand Russell
Top
User avatar
mugabe
Utterly Bastard Groovy Amphetamine Filth
Posts: 682
Joined: 28 Sep 2003, 13:31
Location: Avesta
Contact:
Contact mugabe

Red_Kola wrote:You bastards. You could at least have waited a respectful ammount of time before ignoring the uploader's wishes...

Legal? Moral? - f**k it. It's just plain rude...
Nothing new here.

http://myheartland.co.uk/viewtopic.php?p=221719#221719
Nothing ventured, nothing lost
Top
User avatar
Ozpat
From the Lowlands
Posts: 6758
Joined: 16 Aug 2005, 13:14
Location: In the place through which we wander.

mrgreen wrote:
Badlander wrote:
mrgreen wrote:Hasn't anyone read the accompanying info.txt in the torrent ? It clearly says "don't share in mp3 format" :roll:

That doesn't mean you can't convert to mp3 for your own listening pleasure, but please, if you share, share in lossless format. Thank you !
I always find that kind of comment quite amusing indeed. Recording and distributing copyrighted live material is illegal anyway. Back in the day you sometimes had a copyright note on bootleg CDs. :eek: :lol:
Now I really can't see how you can stop anybody from sharing something you shouldn't have in the first place. :roll: :wink:
BTW, I do know it's a moral issue rather than a law issue.
OK. I will stop sharing my shows from now on.
I can understand your point of view mrgreen!
Thank you for sharing this stuff and I think that your restrictions should be respected. Or at least he could have asked you.
On the other hand I guess he just wanted the music to be accesible for those who can't get a Dime account. So he meant well.

Moral issue indeed....
"as we walk on the floodland"
Top
User avatar
markfiend
goriller of form 3b
Posts: 21181
Joined: 11 Nov 2003, 10:55
Location: st custards
Contact:
Contact markfiend

markfiend wrote:I've edited this out of the main thread for the concert, as it's deserving a topic in its own right.
And if the sh*t really hits the fan, it's going in the bin.
The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.
—Bertrand Russell
Top
User avatar
SomeKindOfStranger
Utterly Bastard Groovy Amphetamine Filth
Posts: 515
Joined: 29 Aug 2005, 13:14
Location: Luton, Bedfordshire
Contact:
Contact SomeKindOfStranger

markfiend wrote:
mrgreen wrote:OK. I will stop sharing my shows from now on.
Don't let some foolish comments put you off.

Jeez, someone records a show, risks getting booted out, risks their recording equipment being confiscated, and all some people can do is bitch.

If someone has gone to the trouble to record a concert, and is generous enough to share their recordings, and cares enough about what people listen to to ask that no lossless copies are distributed, so that everyone gets as good a copy as possible, the least people can do is respect that person's wishes and not start spreading mp3s around.
Nicely put!

For those that havent already seen, I have weeded a FLAC disk of MrGreens efforts and a converted Audio CD.

I've included links in both these weeds to the Dimeadozen (FLAC) download and the rapidshare (mp3) download but if the general concensus is that MP3 is bad(!) please let me know and I'll take the link out of the weed theads.
Top
mrgreen
Road Kill
Posts: 34
Joined: 26 Jul 2005, 18:31

SomeKindOfStranger wrote:MP3 is bad(!)
MP3 is bad if it pollutes the trading pool: if someone burns an audio cd off these mp3's and trades it as an audio cd, that is. Which is something that happens all too soon !

MP3's are fine as long as they serve for your own listening.
Top
Ozric
Road Kill
Posts: 7
Joined: 25 Apr 2006, 20:25

mrgreen wrote:
SomeKindOfStranger wrote:MP3 is bad(!)
MP3 is bad if it pollutes the trading pool: if someone burns an audio cd off these mp3's and trades it as an audio cd, that is. Which is something that happens all too soon !

MP3's are fine as long as they serve for your own listening.
:(

Allright didn't want to start a war about this, so out of respect for Mr. Green I deleted the Rapidshare link.

100000000000000000000000000 my appologies, didn't want to make you angry. Or start a war about mp3's just wanted to be helpfull to the others.

Ozric
Top
User avatar
SomeKindOfStranger
Utterly Bastard Groovy Amphetamine Filth
Posts: 515
Joined: 29 Aug 2005, 13:14
Location: Luton, Bedfordshire
Contact:
Contact SomeKindOfStranger

Can well be friends again now then please :wink: :D
Top
User avatar
elguiri
Gonzoid Amphetamine Filth
Posts: 328
Joined: 08 Jul 2003, 16:15

Didnt we have the same problems here with the Anaheim gig........

http://www.myheartland.co.uk/viewtopic. ... c&start=25

Stick em on your i pods etc but if you are going to spread them keep them in the original form (ie FLAC Files) , the point being that every body gets an iidentical copy to the original , and a few years down the line you dont end up with copies that have 2 or 3 lossy generations in it.

Also if you want to help the others , just upload the FLAC file to a different bittorent site................

Such as

http://zombtracker.the-zomb.com/index.php

http://www.thetradersden.org/?

http://www.purelivegigs.com/forums/


Im Pretty sure these 3 all have open membership with no waiting lists.

Hell if there is a demand for it ill shove it up on one , Not to mention im sure it will turn up in the weeding section.
"Very Elderly Bastard Groovy"
Top
User avatar
markfiend
goriller of form 3b
Posts: 21181
Joined: 11 Nov 2003, 10:55
Location: st custards
Contact:
Contact markfiend

elguiri wrote:it will turn up in the weeding section.
It already has... ;)
The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.
—Bertrand Russell
Top
User avatar
Izzy HaveMercy
The Worlds Greatest Living Belgian
Posts: 8844
Joined: 29 Jan 2002, 00:00
Location: Long Dark Forties
Contact:
Contact Izzy HaveMercy

Ok so THANK you very much for upsetting dear mister Ozric.

I DLed the first zip, which was corrupted.

Then I tried to DL the second one, which should be fine.

RapidShare says I have to wait 45 minutes.

So I wait till tonight and what happened?

The upload is deleted by the user!

I want that gig badly, so can ANYONE send me the show? I have EasyMessage if you want, so we can transfer it thus.

BTW, I also find it funny when people complain about a 'mere' 128 kbps MP3 when we are talking about a live bootleg with not-so-good quality to begin with :roll:

I just want it because I had to miss that second Brussels gig, and I refrain from using the Weeding Section for personal reasons.

IZ.
.
.
For Greater Good - Ambient Music for the Masses...
.
.
Top
User avatar
mugabe
Utterly Bastard Groovy Amphetamine Filth
Posts: 682
Joined: 28 Sep 2003, 13:31
Location: Avesta
Contact:
Contact mugabe

Izzy HaveMercy wrote:BTW, I also find it funny when people complain about a 'mere' 128 kbps MP3 when we are talking about a live bootleg with not-so-good quality to begin with :roll:
Actually, the more the reason not to make the sound worse by introducing artefacts and cutting frequencies.
Nothing ventured, nothing lost
Top
User avatar
Izzy HaveMercy
The Worlds Greatest Living Belgian
Posts: 8844
Joined: 29 Jan 2002, 00:00
Location: Long Dark Forties
Contact:
Contact Izzy HaveMercy

mugabe wrote:
Izzy HaveMercy wrote:BTW, I also find it funny when people complain about a 'mere' 128 kbps MP3 when we are talking about a live bootleg with not-so-good quality to begin with :roll:
Actually, the more the reason not to make the sound worse by introducing artefacts and cutting frequencies.
Then again, you are right, of course... ;)

Now can I have that Brussels MP3- ZIP file please :twisted:

IZ.
.
.
For Greater Good - Ambient Music for the Masses...
.
.
Top
User avatar
Badlander
Overbomber
Posts: 3566
Joined: 16 Feb 2006, 20:17
Location: At the Edge of the Deep Green Sea

mugabe wrote: To the best of my knowledge, if you tape live material, this isn't copyrighted, as copyright exists in recordings. If you were right, recording a show you've been to and listening to it at home would be illegal. You're not allowed to sell it, though.
I'm really, really not sure. Such gaps did exist before 93-94, especially in Italy and Belgium, where the biggest bootleggers such as Kiss the stone and Swinging Pig were. Some very strict legislation was then passed at EU level in order to outlaw live recordings and the generally subsequent boot trade.
Before then, in some cases a live performance in itself was not protected by copyright (again, in Italy, Belgium and Luxembourg). EU member states made sure it would not longer be so.
I'd end this moment to be with you
Through morphic oceans I'd lay here with you
Top
User avatar
Badlander
Overbomber
Posts: 3566
Joined: 16 Feb 2006, 20:17
Location: At the Edge of the Deep Green Sea

Geez, just read all the posts. I didn't imagine such innocent comment would cause such a fuss. Sorry if I hurt anybody.
@ mrgreen : I didn't realize you were at the source of the share. I thought it was just Joe Bootlegger. Honest. :kiss: 8)
I'd end this moment to be with you
Through morphic oceans I'd lay here with you
Top
mrgreen
Road Kill
Posts: 34
Joined: 26 Jul 2005, 18:31

My point is: I'm NOT a bootlegger. I'm not a f**king twit who takes his DV cam to a gig, makes a dvd of it, and sells it on Ebay. I just record shows in order to be able to relive them afterwards. As a courtesy to real fans, I sometimes share my recordings. But, obviously, if sharing is illegal, I will keep 'em for myself next time.
Top
User avatar
HisWimmNess
Amphetamine Filth
Posts: 165
Joined: 07 Jul 2002, 01:00
Location: belgium
Contact:
Contact HisWimmNess

Someone once wrote: much ado about nothing ;D

Meanwhile, I still want a copy of this gig, and I'm willing to pay for it.
nostalgy ain't what it used to be
Top
User avatar
Badlander
Overbomber
Posts: 3566
Joined: 16 Feb 2006, 20:17
Location: At the Edge of the Deep Green Sea

Please remember I said I was wrong, much wrong, regarding the Brussels recording. It was just une belle connerie on my part and I ain't gonna do it again. Promise.
mrgreen wrote:My point is: I'm NOT a bootlegger. I'm not a f**king tw*t who takes his DV cam to a gig, makes a dvd of it, and sells it on Ebay. I just record shows in order to be able to relive them afterwards. As a courtesy to real fans, I sometimes share my recordings. But, obviously, if sharing is illegal, I will keep 'em for myself next time.
Now all I'd like to discuss is the general issue of live recordings. Sure you're no bootlegger, but only because such a thing doesn't exist in the eyes of law. All there is are legal or illegal live recordings. I think recording a live show as such is a civil offence, but of course some more expertise would help. Intentions good or bad don't count, unfortunately. It's the act that matters, and not whether you're a good person or not. The 93 EU legislation was based on the assumption that illegal live recordings, given for free or sold, were detrimental to the interests of the music business as a whole. It's supposed to be bad for the artist because :
- either the copy is sold and in that case the consumer will have less money to spend on official products.
- or it's given for free, and even that is considered an offence, as it still makes the consumer less likely to buy official products.
The trouble is such reasoning is bullsh!t : actual music fans are after official products and bootlegs, not one or the other. Bootlegs and live recordings, all of them, are but a victim of the war on illegal copies, which is a problem, but only in China, Russia...
I'm on the side of bootleggers (well, only those who show some degree of respect and don't take fans for dummies), amateurs and pros alike, but I know that what they do is illegal.
I'd end this moment to be with you
Through morphic oceans I'd lay here with you
Top
User avatar
mandrake
Gonzoid Amphetamine Filth
Posts: 265
Joined: 27 Feb 2006, 20:07
Contact:
Contact mandrake

what with all this rapidshare s**t, cant we start a DC++ hub where we can all share...

just a thought.............
Top
User avatar
mh
Above the Chemist
Posts: 8123
Joined: 23 Jun 2003, 14:41
Location: A city built on rock 'n' roll

21 hours to go, speeding up all of the time, and I'm willing to do the necessary once I get it. Hang tight, anyone who wants it.
If I told them once, I told them a hundred times to put 'Spinal Tap' first and 'Puppet Show' last.
Top
User avatar
Ozpat
From the Lowlands
Posts: 6758
Joined: 16 Aug 2005, 13:14
Location: In the place through which we wander.

HisWimmNess wrote: Meanwhile, I still want a copy of this gig, and I'm willing to pay for it.
In here stuff is traded, weeded, vined and NEVER sold....
"as we walk on the floodland"
Top
mrgreen
Road Kill
Posts: 34
Joined: 26 Jul 2005, 18:31

Badlander wrote:I think recording a live show as such is a civil offence,
I do think it is indeed illegal, in a strict sense (it depends on the artist and the venue - some artists actually give permission to record their shows). But I'm strongly convinced that no harm is done to the artist (otherwise I wouldn't do this). People who collect live shows already have all the official releases. Moreover, if there were no "illegal" live recordings, nobody would know songs like Slept, Still, Suzanne,... For Sisters fans, live recordings are the only source for the new songs. Live recordings are documents of an era :D
Top
User avatar
mh
Above the Chemist
Posts: 8123
Joined: 23 Jun 2003, 14:41
Location: A city built on rock 'n' roll

That gap is gonna be filled, and it's miles better that it be filled by a genuine fan who wants to do good stuff for other genuine fans than it be filled by some dodgy front for an arms/drug dealer.

It's been something like over 40 years since bootlegs came into being. They are not gonna go away. Stuff like InstantLive (US only downloads ---> BOOOO!!!) shows that somebody somewhere is starting to cop on.

40 MB down, 11 hours to go :D
If I told them once, I told them a hundred times to put 'Spinal Tap' first and 'Puppet Show' last.
Top
User avatar
HisWimmNess
Amphetamine Filth
Posts: 165
Joined: 07 Jul 2002, 01:00
Location: belgium
Contact:
Contact HisWimmNess

Ozpat wrote:
HisWimmNess wrote: Meanwhile, I still want a copy of this gig, and I'm willing to pay for it.
In here stuff is traded, weeded, vined and NEVER sold....
Ok.

I want it, and I'm willing to pay the stamps for sending it to me. better? ;D

No seriously, since I'm hardly ever at home (working too much for my health), I don't see when I will be able to copy stuff for others. I really like the weeding section here (just found it), but I will need to take some hollidays to get busy with it I'm afraid.

Maybe I should get sentimental here? My girlfriend saw the first time of her life the sisters. She loved it. And I love her. So I want a copy for her birthday that is coming up :D
nostalgy ain't what it used to be
Top
User avatar
Badlander
Overbomber
Posts: 3566
Joined: 16 Feb 2006, 20:17
Location: At the Edge of the Deep Green Sea

mrgreen wrote:
Badlander wrote:I think recording a live show as such is a civil offence,
I do think it is indeed illegal, in a strict sense (it depends on the artist and the venue - some artists actually give permission to record their shows). But I'm strongly convinced that no harm is done to the artist (otherwise I wouldn't do this). People who collect live shows already have all the official releases. Moreover, if there were no "illegal" live recordings, nobody would know songs like Slept, Still, Suzanne,... For Sisters fans, live recordings are the only source for the new songs. Live recordings are documents of an era :D
It makes sense for sure. But the trouble is record companies are paranoid. And they lobby the European and national parliaments very hard in order to protect what they think are their best interests. And I'm afraid that in their eyes, fans aren't people to be respected. They're people to be fed and robbed. Think about it : if you record a show for your own pleasure, then maybe next time this act comes to town you won't go simply because you still have the boot from the previous concert. And this "maybe" is all record companies need to regard you as a "pirate". I know it's bullsh!t, but hey, it's not a perfect world we're living in. :?
I'd end this moment to be with you
Through morphic oceans I'd lay here with you
Top
Post Reply

Return to “Trading”