Help me build a better bootleg DVD?

[Pursued By Trees]

Hello,

Please be gentle, this is a first post from a medium-time lurker, long-time Sisters fan (since about late '86 early '87-ish).

Anyhow, at the risk of exporting dark matter to an obvious place ...

I've been collecting Sisters compilation DVDs for a while now ... and it seems to me that there has yet to be a really well-organised, definitive collection. This one has a couple of bits which that one doesn't have ... this one has a better version of this vid than that one does etc etc etc ... I'm sure you know the sort of thing.

As I say, I've been gathering different ones together for a while now with the intention of compiling something a little better organised and presented ... mainly for my own amusement and to make freely available or for trade with like-minded folk. PBT is a strictly not for profit disorganisation! I've done this before for one or two artists who I care about and who are unlikely to get official DVD releases for the foreseeable and these have remained traded/given pretty exclusively in-house.

Thing is with this one, I could use a little help. Not so very much for content ... although there's a few clips of dubious quality that could doubtless be improved upon (is there such a thing as a really good quality clip of the 'Body And Soul' promo?) ... anyways ... more of that sort of thing later if people are interested. What I could really use some advice about is more the organisation of such a collection ... and what to call it.

I was thinking of starting out with a disc of the promos ... and maybe some early live clips for some of the singles which never had them. I had an idea about calling the whole collection 'Vision Things'. Leaning heavily on the existing visual iconography for the menus etc ... possibly using the relevant single sleeves for buttons ... although this again poses some problems. It's all very well using early live clips for singles with no vids, but what about 'sleeve artwork' for videos of tracks which were never singles ... should the menus have music, and if so what ... should transition films for linking menus have music or maybe just sound effects or interview extracts ...

Maybe 2 further volumes - Interviews and TV Clips ... but this would be a ways off yet.

I've made a start on modeling the album sleeve art for menu backgrounds and transition films ... they need a bit of tidying up yet but if you're interested some work-in-progress still can be viewed here:

http://www.pbtpbt.btinternet.co.uk/Index.html

... and yes I know my modeling leaves something to be desired ... I'm just starting out with this software and have a lot to get the hang of yet. Hopefully I should be able to go back and tidy bits up as I get better at it.

So am I on a hiding to nothing here, or is anyone interested in offering any helpful advice / constructive criticism so we can all get a better bootleg?

One last thing ... I appreciate that at least one of the compilation DVDs I have originated from hereabouts ... and it's really not my intention to pee anyone off by suggesting that it's in anyway deficient ... I just think maybe we can organise things a little differently.

[robertzombie]

Sounds like a good idea! In the sharing section there's a DVD of nearly all the promo videos in top quality. So I guess you could start there

[stufarq]

Those stills certainly look good to me. I think using single sleeves as buttons is a good idea, and you'd just have to mock up something for 1959 etc.

Perhaps just one two volume set, either with promos on disc 1 and TV stuff on disc 2, or even organised chronologically with a sub menu for each single, featuring both the promo and relevant clips. But that's just a personal preference as I'm the sort of guy who doesn't particularly want to watch every mimed TV performance of This Corrosion unless it has something different to offer.

[Dark]

And welcome.. wow, it's the day for delurking, obviously..

[Pursued By Trees]

Thank you!!

I had a quick look-in before I turned in last night ... so many views to my post with no replies certainly made me take a long hard look at myself. Thought I'd blown it ... charging in like that. Just a bit over-exited I guess, finally starting to get somewhere with this project that I've dreamed about doing for years ... didn't mean to come on like such an arrogant tossbag. Sorry ...

Thanks for the heads up about the Elektra promo tape DVD. I do have that one and it's the source I intend using for Black Planet, Walk Away and No Time To Cry ... it does means that the whole thing will have to be in NTSC as I can convert PAL to NTSC but it doesn't work so well the other way around, but that's really no problem.

I can probably keep it down to a two disc set ... might have to be dual-layer though so that it's all as uncompressed as possible (not sure if this may cause problems for people copying it on for each other when it gets to that stage) ... I'll have to check out the timings for everything I initially want to include and see how it might all fit together. I agree, the live TV performances are certainly something very different to the mimed ones!

I've been thinking about the transitions between menus ... different elements can be faded or moved in and out separately ... I want to be careful that it doesn't end up looking like the dancing kittens in the Crusha adds when the moon rises over the sea and the faces fade in for Floodland ... that transitions from the main menu aren't too .... 'let's take a look through the partially-disected-head-shaped window' etc.

Probably best if I just crack on for now and then maybe when I have some scenes rendered you'd be kind enough to offer some expert opinions and constructive criticism?

[robertzombie]

Let us know when/if you need our help/advice and we'll be happy to give it

[kazamel]

Your project sounds great. Keep us posted and we'll help you out when we can.

[VonOben]

Before compiling such a thing you should check this thread...

http://www.myheartland.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=8745

...and especially this one...

http://www.myheartland.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=14812

Ps. I've got pro equipment* to do transfers from VHS to DVD if anyone would need help with that. Previously mostly done tranfers of swedish artists for the swedish trading community, but perhaps it's about time to look wider.

* = This really means pro equipment, not a DVD-recorder.

[Pursued By Trees]

Before compiling such a thing you should check this thread...

http://www.myheartland.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=8745

...and especially this one...

http://www.myheartland.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=14812

Cheers VonOben!

Yup, I do already have both of these ... plus about another four others ... even the old Camden Market VHS tape for that matter ... been planning this a while.

[Quiff Boy]

for the mac users out there, this is quite a good tutorial on creating custom dvd menus, if you use toast:

How to Create Custom Toast Menu Styles
http://michaelsmac.com/modules.php?name ... le&sid=529

[weebleswobble]

sounds promising

[Pursued By Trees]

I shall mostly be using:

Maya - animation and modeling package
Adobe Encore - DVD authoring (can handle vob files input directly)
Adobe Photoshop - still image elements, masks and bespoke DVD buttons
Adobe After Effects - for compositing animations from Maya with masks from Photoshop
Sound Forge - mixing, trimming etc menu/animation audio elements and for re-dubbing video promo audio from CD
DVD Shrink - useful for trimming vob files without conversion to mpeg or avi
Smart Ripper - handy for ripping larger DVD files as a single vob.

and probably Ulead DVD Workshop 2 a little, although less for it's authoring function and more for it's vob to mpeg and PAL to NTSC conversion algorhythms which I find to be very effective.

[James Blast]

for the mac users out there, this is quite a good tutorial on creating custom dvd menus, if you use toast:

How to Create Custom Toast Menu Styles
http://michaelsmac.com/modules.php?name ... le&sid=529

very nifty indeed Boss, I'll have a go at that

[Pursued By Trees]

Hmmm ... not happy with how the lettering comes in yet ... but the Floodland menu should come in something a bit like like this:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=665smTZ2ntw

Whaddayareckon? Perhaps the lettering should just fade in and the moving water is enough in-scene movement as it is? Could have either single letters or the whole title-as-one move or fade or whatever ...


and some ... ahem ... 'eye candy' here:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6LidRRZ0sI

Which was just a short test render to see what it looked like flying a camera round it ... the TV lines didn't come out as well in such low resolution as they did in the original size ... come to think of it ... I'll probably need to adjust those for final TV size anyhow.

[James Blast]

Nice work, Sir/Madam!

[Nic]

Very nice!

[robertzombie]

Great stuff!

[Pursued By Trees]

Thank you very much indeed for the encouraging positive responses!

What I could really use is some constructive criticism/creative ideas to help me to refine things.

With the Floodland menu I'm going to try something so that the movement of the moon will hopefully slow more gradually to a halt ... hopefully a little less jarring and abrupt as it comes to rest ... although I want to try to keep the timing as the faces fade in as this seems to me to work pretty well.

What do people think about the way that the lettering comes in? How could this be improved?

I've been tidying up the main (MR Logo) and FALAA menu scenes and will, if all goes well, hopefully have something else to put up on Utube by the end of the week.

[stufarq]

Like both of those. My personal preference would be for the Floodland one not to go in reverse when (presumably) you exit the menu. I find that menu animations are enjoyable for entering the menu (as long as they don't go on for ever, as the novelty soon wears off) but annoying when you're just trying to get to another page and they slow you down.

[Pursued By Trees]

Good point, well made!

Thank you Stufarq ... that's precisely the sort of guidance that I'm looking for. I want to make this as user-friendly as possible.

[stufarq]

I did like it for entering the menu, though. And making the water sparkle was a nice touch.

[DocSommer]

Wow - that menu artwork is a an eyecatcher

Perhaps the lettering should just fade in

My personal preference would be for the Floodland one not to go in reverse when (presumably) you exit the menu.

Agree - most people don't like to wait for the menu access, so I'd suggest to author these gadges "skipable" or shorter (<3 seconds). Another solution could be an "easteregg-hidden-very-basic-alternative menue" with room for fast and barrier-free navigation beside the beautiful animated one.

[Pursued By Trees]

Skippable gadges is certainly no problem.

I've now amended the lettering on the Floodland menu in ... hopefully an improvement ... and added a potential menu in/background for the earlier live clips ... will have to see what tracks actually end up in that section when we get to that point ... I favour the York Festival '84 version of Alice for starters.

I'm presently considering how to get some movement into the FALAA menu ... maybe having the side pannels gently rippling like stage rigging/drapes ?? Would be more subtle than waving searchlights over it I guess.

Again, please let me know what you think!

[stufarq]

How hard would it be to get the curtains to open?

[Pursued By Trees]

Hmmm ... have the side pannels open like curtains to reveal the lettering in the middle ...

... something like these perhaps?

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=OjqSWROZc ... re=related

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=TFQlYKYWAJk

Never having tried it I don't really know how difficult this might be to achieve, I could certainly try giving it a go I guess. I can make them soft and cloth-like ... not yet sure about how to get them to move like that though ... and the pannels are pretty narrow to begin with ... so they couldn't gather very much at all.

I'll have to see what I can come up with.