CPOB #89743

[EvilBastard]

Can't find a new one of these since the last one was closed, so starting one.

What is it about web designers that convinces them that they know what you want better than you do? I asked for a language filter so that the the user can filter out/in any of the 16 different languages that the articles in the news feed come in. This precipitated a 3-hour argument about why I don't really need one, why the users don't need one, and why they shouldn't tweak one of the existing filter patterns.

I know we have some techie people on here who may be involved in web-design, so Serious Question: is it just my lot who nurture a pathological inability to do what they're effing told, or are all of you afflicted with this? I get it, there are people who don't know what they want, and who ask for stuff like "Can you make the logo look more logo-y", but when what you're asking for is as simple and straightforward as it comes: I need the user to be able to select one or more language from this list. Here's the list. There's the template. Now please fucky-offy, do your job, and don't fucking give me any lip.

Any advice anyone can offer about this is gratefully received - the time between Now and Going Apeshit In The Design Lounge With A Baseball Bat, A Pair Of Bolt Cutters, And A Raw Chicken Covered In Marmite is rapidly diminishing.

[million voices]

Have you tried switching them off and then switching them back on again?

[EvilBastard]

Have you tried switching them off and then switching them back on again?

No, but I have suggested that the easiest solution involves a canal, a large sack, and a couple of bricks.

[lazarus corporation]

Have you tried switching them off and then switching them back on again?

Without knowing their reasons why "they shouldn't tweak one of the existing filter patterns" it's hard to say. It could be either a bull-s**t excuse for laziness on their part or there could be a valid technical/SEO reason. I'd probably guess the former, though.

[markfiend]

Sorry EvilBastard but you sound a bit like the quintessential client from hell. If you employ someone for their expertise, and they tell you that you should or shouldn't do things in this way or that, they probably know what they're talking about a lot more than you do.

This is a bit what you sound like:

What is it about car mechanics that convinces them that they know what you want better than you do? I asked for an addition to my car that would let me put diesel or regular petrol in. This precipitated a 3-hour argument about why I don't really need one, why my car doesn't need one, and why they shouldn't tweak the existing engine.

I don't know that what you're asking for is quite that stupid, but you get the idea.

[iesus]

a big and respect for the example with the diesel petrol in a car to markfiend
great parallelism of what sometimes people ask and think that is a great idea
Ofc i can't understand what the first post people were asked to do by Evil so it is not possible to help if this was possible or easy or useful or just painful or meaningless etc

[EvilBastard]

I do get the idea, and the weird thing is that I've been trying really really hard not to be a CFH. But as a "product owner" I really do have a better understanding of what the client wants/needs than the designers, and I don't feel that what is being asked for is unreasonable.

If the designers were to say "Well, we're designers - it's our job to make what you want look awesome. If there are things we don't understand then we'll ask, and if we think there's a better way to do it then we'll make suggestions - maybe there is a more elegant solution than tweaking an existing filter (regardless of the fact that we've banged on ceaselessly about making things consistent - when it's something we want to change we'll change it, if you want to change it we'll revert to "we need to be consistent", that's just how we roll), what about if we do that?" - I am the most reasonable person, if they dream up something that looks better then absolutely, go for it.

But the galling thing is to spend 3 hours with them, hear "yes, we think that's a great idea, I'll go work it up", be told that "we should have something for you on Friday" and then not to hear from them again until 4pm the following Tuesday, "something came up," and then be shown something completely unlike what was agreed. I don't mind changes, but how about you talk to me before making changes and then tell me "We've done this now, let's just move ahead with it as it is."

If they were freelancers that would be one thing, but they actually work for us - you know, as in "full-time employees". If this application doesn't sell then we're all in the poop.

So maybe the question I need to be asking, rather than "What's the best way to hide the bodies?" is "What are the words I need to be using to help the designers understand that we're not asking for unreasonable things, if you have suggestions then make them, let's make this a collaborative enterprise"? I've tried using those words, and apparently they're not comprehensible. Should I be drawing pictures instead?

[iesus]

Ok, i just re-read the first post to see if i can find any clue not visible at first reading.
1) There is a news feed that has articles in 16 languages
2) Someone needs to make search in articles
3) There is already a search function

Question from an analyst.
Where all those articles are stored ? A Database? If yes m is it yours or someone else has that Db?
Fact, there is no difference at this moment in some Db's and search tools when you search in Chinese, Greek, Swahili or Thai. The future in searching is not to mention what language to search for, you search in all languages specific term of search. There is no gain to exclude or include languages in specific searches. All those in case of an existing utf-16 or similar encoding.
An other useful question could be : "Why?" "Why should we do nothing instead of putting those filters i am telling you (and i can't find enough sacks to put the bodies and the prices raised high those days at bags etc)
?"

[markfiend]

But the galling thing is to spend 3 hours with them, hear "yes, we think that's a great idea, I'll go work it up", be told that "we should have something for you on Friday" and then not to hear from them again until 4pm the following Tuesday, "something came up," and then be shown something completely unlike what was agreed. I don't mind changes, but how about you talk to me before making changes and then tell me "We've done this now, let's just move ahead with it as it is."

Yes that is different

OTOH I have a colleague that quite frequently does the "yes that's a great idea, we'll get it done" on my behalf, and when I then have to tell the client "no, what you ask for isn't technically possible" it makes me look like a numpty.

Sometimes it's hard to explain... relevant xkcd:

[paint it black]

Should I be drawing pictures instead?

i would say yes, my projects, waterfall or agile, all have pictures - rich, milestone, conceptual - visual tools are brill

perhaps you also need a communication protocol (as i call it anyway, which sets out who communicates with who, what is recorded and how - diff than the RACI which looks at the detail. this way change requests have to come through you and QCD is fully explored)

+ they're prettier than words

[markfiend]

Waterfall? Agile? Management in our place go in for the mushroom model: keep them in the dark and bury them in shıt.

[Pista]

Kernel panics.

Had a few of them this week. I think it may have been the live BBC stream triggering them though, as they seem to *whispers* have stopped.

[EvilBastard]

OTOH I have a colleague that quite frequently does the "yes that's a great idea, we'll get it done" on my behalf, and when I then have to tell the client "no, what you ask for isn't technically possible" it makes me look like a numpty.

Sometimes it's hard to explain...

Well yes, I've had bosses like that too

As far as the "technically possible" - you see, this is where it gets really annoying. The news feed is littered with XML tags, one of which is cunningly prefixed with "lang" and corresponds to the language that the article is written in. The XML informs all of the other filters, so my hope was that it was just a matter of creating a filter that referenced that. But clearly I wasn't thinking with a "design" brain, which (in our case) means that the answer to every question that starts "Can we have..." or "can you make..." has the default answer "no", rather than "let me take a look" or "well, what you want isn't technically possible, but what about..."

[markfiend]

He's not even my boss...

But yeah, you XML language thing just sounds like it's your designers being awkward cnuts. Who'd 'a thunk it?

[markfiend]

Last Friday (October 31) would have been my dad's birthday. We interred his ashes.

I'm not coping very well. I should have said something about it earlier. Suffering in silence is not the way to go is it?

[eastmidswhizzkid]

Last Friday (October 31) would have been my dad's birthday. We interred his ashes.

I'm not coping very well. I should have said something about it earlier. Suffering in silence is not the way to go is it?

a cliche i know but everyone grieves in their own way; and it's one of the few tmes we should absolutely allow ourselves the luxury of being selfish. it can be hard to do so, especially as we are often not the only ones grieving, but after you've made sure your mum/other relatives you need to support are ok you have to do whatever you feel you need to do. if thats talk about it, then talk about it. if that's go and get paralytic and pick a fight with the first twat who deserves it, well thats what you have to do.

sorry to hear you're not coping well, mate. (un)funnily enough, the day after -1 nov- marked 10 years since my gran died. she was like a mother to me but also much, much more. if you'd told me 10 years before that i would be a bit sad, but basically be able to look back fondly on her life and all it stood for i wouldnt have believed you, but i did. the loss doesnt go away but the pain diminishes with time, it really does. hope there'ssomeone you can talk to if you need to, there's always us. take care mate.

[Johnny Rev 7.0]

Everyone does grieve in their own way Lee.

Mark's right. Some of us suffer in silence; or some of us explode. There's no rationale and rhyme and reason behind it. We're all unique. We're all looking for a (genuine) Wailing Wall, which doesn't exist.

When my situation happened, I automatically reached out to you and Mark. Due to the FPL thing Steve then became aware.

You're all different. When I needed this, I went to this. When I needed that, I went to that. When I wanted to explode, I went to you.

It wasn't big, it wasn't clever, but in my mindstorm, I thought you were the man who could take it. Very, very harsh words from me. But I'd do it again in a heartbeat. Because I love you and needed you. I just wanted to attack and rage.

We all run our own Bank of Emotions in relation to every day life. The three of you are in massive credit with me. When the shit hits the fan in your own personal lives? Unlimited overdrafts.

Who said Bromance was dead? (one each)

[Being645]

Hi Mark,

I'm sad to hear that and I couldn't possibly advise you any better than eastmidswhizzkid already has ... also it is very well said, what you said, Johnny ...

All I might have to add is that the first days are always the very, very worst ... worse than one could ever imagine. And then one has to take it and note it and agree to let the beloved one go, to allow for that ... and funny enough, as far as I've noticed each time a beloved one went away, as soon as you let them go, they are wonderfully back and always around somewhere out there, in a sun ray, in a memory, in a sudden feel or smell and always in a good and calm and wonderful way, just as if they had reached home and settled and were now greeting and watching from the everything of the universe we're all in ... at least that's how it is with my grandmother, that's how it is with my brother and that's how it is with our cat who disappeared four weeks ago and that's why I think she's dead, just because she seems to be there, everywhere, so lovely and close ... so dear and sweet ... no longer with us in the garden but entirely around.

Best from me Mark, and all the good energies it takes for you ... and for your family.

[Pista]

Never forget the Heartland Effect.

One of the (many) things I learnt since joining HL is the "effect".

All the advice in the world can't match the feeling that there is a bunch of us all here rooting for each other virtually, physically & spiritually.

[markfiend]

... pick a fight with the first twat who deserves it,

Or some poor sod who doesn't.

Thanks everyone. It helps.

[Johnny Rev 7.0]

... pick a fight with the first twat who deserves it,

Or some poor sod who doesn't.

Stop now Mark, love to Kerry, and love your sig.

[rien]

Condolences/sympathy from me also.

BTW; Flickr have solved the bird/national park problem:
http://code.flickr.net/2014/10/20/intro ... k-or-bird/

I was also going to ask what CPOB means, but I think I've figured it out. Shoulda posted the student party thing here then, I guess.

[emilystrange]

many hugs to you, mark. we're always here.

[markfiend]

Yeah reading that back it came out totally wrong.

Sorry Lee I was not meaning to insinuate that you go out and beat up random people. What I should have said is:

Yes, I feel that way too, but I end up lashing out at random at some poor sod who doesn't deserve it.

Ironically demonstrated by my previous post

Kerry sends her love to you too John

Thanks again everybody.

[stufarq]

Last Friday (October 31) would have been my dad's birthday. We interred his ashes.

I'm not coping very well.

No-one does. If we did, we wouldn't be human.