Cryptic Flowers Bootleg LP : Origin

[newwarsaw]

Hi,
Does anyone know why country Italy was given as origin? Based on the pictures from the labels and the multicoloured vinyls, I am convinced these are in fact German boots... for comparison following link from an official German New Order promo LP...:
https://www.discogs.com/New-Order-Power ... se/1702428

[Pista]

Hello & welcome to the forum
The sleeve has "Made In Italy" printed on it, although mixing & mastering appears to have been done in Germany
http://sisterswiki.org/Cryptic_Flowers

[newwarsaw]

Hi Steve, of course those studios are fake too... what about my theory... ? have you compared a multicolour copy to the new order link of the official promo? tx! daan

[Pista]

Well it's hard to tell, given the labels have nothing printed on them, but for sure Italy was a force on the bootleg scene in the 80's & many of the Metropol label releases were Italian made.
Are you making the link due to the pattern on the vinyl?
I think a lot of vinyl manufacturers make these gimmicky splatter patterns.

[Being645]

Multicoloured vinyls were very common at the time. Though you might have a point there, newwarsaw.
Comparing for example this one - which was first released in Italy (1984), while further issues came from Germany (from 1985 on)
- shows that some look quite alike ... http://sisterswiki.org/Live_At_Brixton_ ... l_Pictures

Many bootlegs were reissued by other bootleggers, once they were perceived as a good source of income and a lovely addition to every collection.
Unfortunately, however, the cover art and the sound quality differed and deteriorated with the later issues.

Btw, welcome here ... ...

[newwarsaw]

I'm making the link to this New Order official German promo pressing based mainly on the specific pattern on the label, and also the splattered vinyl looks very much like some boots...
Interesting link to the Live At Brixton Ace gig.
Is this the one that was released in Italy ?: http://sisterswiki.org/File:Brixton_1_White.jpg
It has a white xeroxed A1 sheet attached to the blank sleeve, and has printed labels. I would agree with that, as it has atypical pressing features (a very wide pressing ring, and a printed label). Other example : https://www.discogs.com/Joy-Division-Ru ... se/4292769. The other "first releases" from the Live In Brixton, look German pressings to me...

[newwarsaw]

Coming back to the Metropol label. In discogs only 3 releases : The Sisters' Cryptic Flowers (discussed here), Spear Of Destiny (marked Italy as is printed on the sleeve) and Yes (marked Germany)...So, were is the ifno coming from that many releases on this label were Italian?

[Pista]

That info comes from various bootleg sites covering may different bands.
For sure the original was an Italian made boot, but as Being645 mentions, bootleggers do often bootleg bootlegs & so subsequent pressings may well have been produced elsewhere & the chances are, to save money, the same artwork was used.

[newwarsaw]

So the link I sent was from THE original (and only) Italian press then?

[Pista]

I think the link you posted was to a Rough Trade promo pressing of Power Corruption & Lies.
That's definitely produced in Germany & not a bootleg either.

[newwarsaw]

correct, that's legit . I meant http://sisterswiki.org/File:Brixton_1_White.jpg

[Pista]

correct, that's legit . I meant http://sisterswiki.org/File:Brixton_1_White.jpg

Yep.
First edition was from Italy & further editions were made in Germany.
Gets confusing huh?

[newwarsaw]

all sounds clear now (through the sodium haze )

[Being645]

I meant http://sisterswiki.org/File:Brixton_1_White.jpg

OK, if the info @discogs can be trusted, I would think that this version with the printed labels might come from Germany, indeed.

However, the original bootleg with the same cover art but with plain white labels, was definitely made in Italy.

Unfortunately, however, the cover art and the sound quality of bootlegged bootlegs differ and deteriorate with later issues at times. By far not always, though.

That's what I meant to say but expressed in a somewhat confusing way before.

[newwarsaw]

Getting more interesting, and confusing...

The discogs info canNOT be trusted on this one:
https://www.discogs.com/Joy-Division-Ru ... se/4292769
for the simple reason that I changed the country, and that's where my journey begun... at first i assumed this pressing must have come from greece, as there are only greek sellers... i talked to a hardcore joy division collector and he claimed he bought it in germany in 1984. Date could be right, looking at the sisters brixton lp http://sisterswiki.org/File:Brixton_1_White.jpg
So i changed the country into germany, and that is what you see now on discogs, so not so trustworthy. Would be interesting to know if anyone else has seen this kind of labels and especially the ring with the very wide pressing dip. I assumed, as the original brixton pressing comes from italy, this would be the one...
If you look at the other brixton first pressings, you will see they the same label pressing characteristics as this official german pressing https://www.discogs.com/New-Order-Power ... se/1702422

[Being645]

The New-Order-Power-Corruption-Lies/release/ vinyls are multi-coloured,
but these colours not typical for Sisters bootlegs of that time ... page through them and you will see it ... ...

http://sisterswiki.org/Vinyl_Bootlegs_12%22

[eastmidswhizzkid]

this is not Sisters FAQs. this should be in Trading. i'm sure the dilligent Being645 will add all relevant facts to the wiki anyway.

[newwarsaw]

Hi Being645
Thanks for your help! Last time : don't you think the New Order one and the following links come from the same plant?:
http://sisterswiki.org/File:Cryptic_Flo ... dition.jpg
http://sisterswiki.org/File:Cryptic_Flo ... dition.jpg
http://sisterswiki.org/File:Brixton_1_R ... ear_MC.jpg

On the other hand, is this the first (and italian?) press for brixton (for reference i added a joy division boot clearly from the same plant (very wide pressing ring)):
http://sisterswiki.org/File:Brixton_1_White.jpg
https://www.discogs.com/Joy-Division-Ru ... se/4292769
The Joy Division is said to be German, but that was my call... No to sure about that as you this site states it's italian?

[markfiend]

this is not Sisters FAQs. this should be in Trading.

Aye you're probably right. I'll shift it.

[Being645]

Hi Being645
Thanks for your help! Last time : don't you think the New Order one and the following links come from the same plant?:
http://sisterswiki.org/File:Cryptic_Flo ... dition.jpg
http://sisterswiki.org/File:Cryptic_Flo ... dition.jpg
http://sisterswiki.org/File:Brixton_1_R ... ear_MC.jpg

I'm not an expert, but the colours of the New Order one look much "thicker". So, no, rather not from the same plant; IMHO ... ...

On the other hand, is this the first (and italian?) press for brixton (for reference i added a joy division boot clearly from the same plant (very wide pressing ring)):
http://sisterswiki.org/File:Brixton_1_White.jpg
https://www.discogs.com/Joy-Division-Ru ... se/4292769
The Joy Division is said to be German, but that was my call... No to sure about that as you this site states it's italian?

The concert was recorded in Germany in 1984, but again, that sort of "clear" does not look like a similar pressing to me.
Not only for that release, but for any Sisters bootleg.
But maybe there are other opionions? Anyone?