where do you draw the line when it comes to bootlegs

[Elon]

hi guys,

many fans don't collect bootlegs and some have very legitimate objections to this activity, but for those who do collect them, i am curious whether there is a consensus in the fan base about what items are considered worthy of inclusion in a serious collection, and what items definitely aren't

does the list featured on the wiki reflects this consensus?

there is such a high output, even to this day with basically at least a new product released every month, that even the completists must draw the line somewhere

there are some obvious cases, like the s**t $200-a-piece Greek or Israeli lathe cuts flooding the market, which belongs to the scam category

but how about some earlier Greek bootlegs (Razorblades, Big Club)

how about the Australian serials that exist in multiple variations (Panic, Fire in the Hull, Land of Kings...)

how about some new boots that are fairly priced (Gimme Shelter, Jesus Loves the Sisters, Don't Turn On The Lights...)

Interested to have some feedback on what the community thinks about this topic...

[radiojamaica]

For me it kinda stopped when the Greek began flooding the market, somewhere in the mid 2000's (?). I do have the Big Club LP and also one of the Oz bootlegs, but I only buy those if the price is right and that doesn't happen often... The most recent one I got was the Jesus Love The Sisters LP and that really is a good one and came at a fraction of the price the Greek sells his stuff for, I think I paid £12 for that. Same thing goes for Joy Division bootlegs: love and collect the old ones but don't care much for the ones released in the last 20 years or so...

Would love to talk about this stuff while having a beer or two

[Pista]

Many many many many moons ago, before the intertubes were unleashed on the unwashed masses, I'd often go to the record fair in Brighton each month & pick up those cassettes with the gaudy coloured covers & maybe an album or two. But only if the quality was worth the spend &/or as a memento of a show I had been to.
But since the digital age swooped in, I stopped. I still collect, but now I prefer to know where they have been sourced from. With releases over the last couple of decades you simply don't know if some chancer has just snagged a shiatty set of mp3 files off a blog spot or farcebook post or youchoob & made a snazzy looking CD or gone to the trouble of cutting their own vinyl stock with who knows what sort of vinyl & zero quality control.
A recent example of this is 2 The Cure shows from Japan 1984 that a mate of mine bought on evilbay as CD bootlegs & then posted them in our sharing section on TheCureCommunity.
They were lossy as fcuk & it was impossible to tell what the original bitrate was that was burned to disc, so the resulting flac files ripped from the discs are bloats that take up a large amount of disc space.
A Sisters example of zero quality control is evident in the recent spate of posts about the Cryptic Flowers boot that has the 1st Possession disc instead.
There are also instances of home-made vinyls having the same tracks on both sides of the disc.
So, no, I don't buy bootlegs anymore. I don't trust many of the sellers & it's way too easy to get ripped off because it's way too easy to make your own product to plonk on evilbay or wherever.
In the present day, it is quite simple to digitally share/ trade recordings with known lineage & accompanying checksums or fingerprints to use to verify authenticity...at no profit other than a smile & a thankyou from the recipient(s)
If you read some of the posts about the recent(ish) remasters &, indeed, the upcoming SGWBM set, there is the desire to have the original, un-fcuked about with version of the DD single in that collection. I think that's my view on bootlegs these days.

[Charlie]

From a newbies point of view, (whatever that counts for ) bootlegs are an absolute necessity with this band and it's great discovering them all at once now, but there's so much stuff and it can be a real minefield!
I also don't want to chance buying blind from the internet and plus i'm skint so not really an option for me to risk that

That's why this place and the people here have been invaluable with their knowledge of what to recommend and how to go about it.
I've got many bootlegs from the VERY kind people here who have shared their files, you know you can trust in what you're getting, i can't say enough about how great this community has been for that.

[despair]

In general I don't like the newer bootlegs. Buying anything from the Greek is out of the question for me, and those Israeli items are just garbage. I don't really pay attention to the newer bootlegs anymore, but at least the Australian stuff used to be reasonably priced.

Content wise I draw the line after the Floodland era. I also don't like counterfeits and bootlegs with only or primarily officially released content like "Enter The Sisters".

What I do like is unreleased studio recordings and nice soundboard recordings from 1984-85

[Zacharias]

I certainly collect bootlegs but would basically not buy anything released after the 90's. At least not out of a collector point of view. Might happen if it was cheap, and then I mean dirt cheap, and out of curiosity. My interest also deteriorates the further you get from the period before FALAA.

For some reason I'm disgusted by bootleggers nowadays but not when it comes to bootleggers from back in the days not at all. I'm irrational that way.

[radiojamaica]

That's why this place and the people here have been invaluable with their knowledge of what to recommend and how to go about it. I've got many bootlegs from the VERY kind people here who have shared their files, you know you can trust in what you're getting, i can't say enough about how great this community has been for that.

Back in earlier days of Heartland, we had the weeding section for that. Oh, how I loved that. It was a great way to connect with some fabulous folks many a mile away, but all sharing the love for this great music.

[paul]

I still love the classics in my collection, but the new ones? Not even bothered to look the last years.

[Drsisters]

I still love the classics in my collection, but the new ones? Not even bothered to look the last years.

Amen to that.

[Dan]

& it was impossible to tell what the original bitrate was that was burned to disc

If the spectrogram shows a sharp cutoff point then It's fairly easy to tell what the original bitrate was. I've seen quite a few flacs sourced from approx 128kbps files so it doesn't surprise me that some end up pressed to vinyl.

[Pista]

& it was impossible to tell what the original bitrate was that was burned to disc

If the spectrogram shows a sharp cutoff point then It's fairly easy to tell what the original bitrate was. I've seen quite a few flacs sourced from approx 128kbps files so it doesn't surprise me that some end up pressed to vinyl.

It'll depend on what encoder was used. Some are pretty cr@ppy tbh.
But the biggest pain is that a file set bloated from ~100mb of mp3s to ~500mb of flacs cannot be recompressed without horsing them up even more. Since they were already compressed & so data stripped from them, stripping more data out to save storage space would properly fcuk them up.

[EvilBastard]

From a personal perspective, I'll buy boots of gigs I attended, or of singles/demos that I have little chance of getting my hands on. Back when all this was fields (early 90s, since you asked) I picked up Victims Demos & Rarities from the record fair at Leeds Poly, got the 1992 NEC boot from there too.
But I don't really consider myself a collector - I don't need 17 copies of Vision Thing, or the Japanese ultra-violet import of Under The Gun. The closest I've got to "collecting" was getting the limited-edition Temple 92 box with the postcards - figured it might be worth something at some point, but it seems not. Anyone want it?

[paint it black]

I gave up with mp3 and the Greek multi-packs.

I still! gets loads given to me, which is nice.

[Being645]

I love live recordings, especially when I've been to the according gig myself. Insofar, data (preferrably FLACs) are fine with me. When it comes to vinyl, all the old 7"s are well worth collecting and most of the old 12"s as well, IMO.

The relatively current MADE BY FANS FOR FANS SERIES offers some nice items at a relatively low price, and they don't pretend to be more than what they are quailitywise. Not all of them look very tempting from their cover, but some do. So what. One point against them is indeed their POS mentality at discogs ... no way to hear about their releases if not there.

Basically, I have a positive view on upcoming bootleg releases as long as the sound and the vinyl quality are ok and the cover art looks good,
AND AS LONG AS THE UNDERLYING RECORDING IS NOT STOLEN FROM SHARES MADE HERE OR ELSEWHERE !!!
Anyway, I see no reason to buy 27 different bootlegs with entirely the same BBC Sessions or other such stuff on them ...

Greek regularly overpriced and limited edition bootlegs of all sorts (vinyls, CDs, box sets and what not) are mainly beyond any consideration for me ... nothing but a rip-off and often based on recordngs kindly shared by others here for free. How can anybody buy these things? (Well, apart from few exceptions which might at least look good on the shelf).

Also the quality of the vinyls from Australia is not really great at times, IMHO, and they have started to engage in limited editions as well, taking the example from Greece. However, the multicoloured splattered vinyls do look quite nice and the starting bids for Australian bootlegs are generally not excessive ... it's the buyers who drive the prices up there ... induced to do so, though, by the "limited" availability of those copies ... so, nothing for me nowadays (apart from collecting pictures).

As to the SistersWiki, Greek bootlegs are hardly mentioned ... there are so many, always overpriced and limited edition items ... that would fill (and spoil) a good part of the bootlegs section. Some are listed as "Greek fake", including pictures, since the Greek have repressed some rare items (vinyls as much as cds) and the information should not be kept away from potential buyers. Beyond that, I rather have no reservations against any of the more recent bootlegs releases ... though, as a matter of fact, not all pages for the old and "real" ones are edited as yet, and I prefer to proceed chronologically ... mostly ... ... if anybody else feels encouraged to do a page about any of the more recent bootlegs from the UK, the US or elsewhere like for example Jesus Loves The Sisters ... no problem. But I do not feel responsible for making that page look nice and filling all the gaps ... *altough there is an idiot in my head wishing to upload and integrate info and pictures ... but I resist as there is lots of works in progress, anyway, on my part ...

[deadagain]

I don't buy many, if any, bootlegs these days. This may be in part as I don't have a turntable set up, or have much time to devote to listening to music as I used to. The high prices some are put up for is also a factor as I cannot justify the expense.

I don't see bootlegs as exploitative of the fans, as so much is available online for free, and they are ultimately a luxury item, rather than a necessity (some may view collecting as a compulsive mental addiction of course).

Some of the recent bootleg 12" picture discs of official studio tracks, sometimes with unrelated images, are hilarious, and I don't understand anyone wanting them in their collections, but if people want to press them up and try to sell them, then good luck to them. I felt the same about the hundreds of Polish/Russian postcard flexi discs which flooded the market in the early 90s.

I draw the line at the seemingly endless stream of repackaged / remastered / heavy weight vinyl / etc. reissues of albums by official record companies and their subsidiaries. I can understand their value if they add a lot of previously unavailable tracks, but otherwise they are utterly unnecessary. If you want to hear slightly different sounding versions of albums you already own then simply adjust the graphic equalizer.