Been doing some homework on the topic "Equipment to record live shows".
So what equipment is to prefer for the ultimate live bootleg sound ?
A DAT tape deck must be the ultimate equipment to use together with a decent microphone.
But a guess a MD with a decent microphone also can do the job pretty well ?
Any thoughts on this topic ?
Technical boys
-
Quiff Boy
- Herr Administrator
- Posts: 16794
- Joined: 25 Jan 2002, 00:00
- Location: Lurking and fixing
- Contact:
i kinda know the guy that did the york birthday recording and he used a MD with a tiny lapel mic. not ideal quality, but then neither was the gig...On Jun 9, 2002 10:41am, Drsisters wrote:
Been doing some homework on the topic "Equipment to record live shows".
So what equipment is to prefer for the ultimate live bootleg sound ?
A DAT tape deck must be the ultimate equipment to use together with a decent microphone.
But a guess a MD with a decent microphone also can do the job pretty well ?
Any thoughts on this topic ?
the best way would have to be a DAT connected to the mixing desk, plus an "ambient" mic in the crowd to get some audience noise. then mix the two together! perfect!
alternatively, i guess the ultimate live recording kit really would have to be "the rolling stone mobile"! i think around 60% of all official live recordings are made using that setup...
What’s the difference between a buffalo and a bison?
-
Drsisters
- Utterly Bastard Groovy Amphetamine Filth
- Posts: 662
- Joined: 26 Jan 2002, 00:00
- Location: Europe
Nah, but tech spec info is always interesting 
Current research "Omnidirectional, cardioid and super cardioid microphones vs Minidisc or DAT decks"
Current research "Omnidirectional, cardioid and super cardioid microphones vs Minidisc or DAT decks"
Andrew Eldritch Dour Festival 1997: Yeah, We take any request... As much as we ever do.
I just use a walkman with a built-in mic, cos it's all I have. Over the years its been knocked about and stage dived on and still does quite a good job.
I would agree though that the microphone is as important, if not MORE important than the machine you record on. I've had recordings from people where they've been proud of the fact that the gig was recorded on DAT, but when you hear them they're a piece of crap cos the mic they used was a cheap useless one. A cheap tape recorder with a great mic will give better results than a dat with a useless mic.
I would agree though that the microphone is as important, if not MORE important than the machine you record on. I've had recordings from people where they've been proud of the fact that the gig was recorded on DAT, but when you hear them they're a piece of crap cos the mic they used was a cheap useless one. A cheap tape recorder with a great mic will give better results than a dat with a useless mic.
-
Tin-Can-Man
- Road Kill
- Posts: 15
- Joined: 23 Sep 2002, 01:00
The ultimate is to record the gig through an SSL mobile truck with sound engineer plus all ambient mics etc. and ensure the sound is correctly balanced. This is what most bands would do for official live recordings. Much of the high end market is moving to solid state or hard disc recorders.
For the rest of you, the most effective and affordable means is to use a minidisc recorder on auto-levels (very important) with a decent small stereo mic. It's compressed sound but I guarentee that most of you would not notice the difference. Remember too much moving of hands on the mic, knocking it against clothing etc. will impact on sound quality. Forget cardiod, omni-s etc. as this usually refers to mono mics. There are an increasing number of cheap hand-held solid statre recorders on the market .e.g Maycom which will be the next generation of location recorder.
For the rest of you, the most effective and affordable means is to use a minidisc recorder on auto-levels (very important) with a decent small stereo mic. It's compressed sound but I guarentee that most of you would not notice the difference. Remember too much moving of hands on the mic, knocking it against clothing etc. will impact on sound quality. Forget cardiod, omni-s etc. as this usually refers to mono mics. There are an increasing number of cheap hand-held solid statre recorders on the market .e.g Maycom which will be the next generation of location recorder.
-
Drsisters
- Utterly Bastard Groovy Amphetamine Filth
- Posts: 662
- Joined: 26 Jan 2002, 00:00
- Location: Europe
Tin-Can-Man wrote:For the rest of you, the most effective and affordable means is to use a minidisc recorder on auto-levels (very important) with a decent small stereo mic. It's compressed sound but I guarentee that most of you would not notice the difference. Remember too much moving of hands on the mic, knocking it against clothing etc. will impact on sound quality. Forget cardiod, omni-s etc. as this usually refers to mono mics. There are an increasing number of cheap hand-held solid statre recorders on the market .e.g Maycom which will be the next generation of location recorder.
auto-levels can f**k up the recording totally, especialy when it comes to the sisters. Everyone who have essen 93 and london 98 (visions at the forum) can hear the result of the auto-level function. What i mean is that when Eldritch makes a high howl or a loud scream, the music fades down for some secs. Very annoying indeed.
Andrew Eldritch Dour Festival 1997: Yeah, We take any request... As much as we ever do.
-
Tin-Can-Man
- Road Kill
- Posts: 15
- Joined: 23 Sep 2002, 01:00
The difference between me and Drsisters is that I've been working in the prfoessional audio industry for over ten years so should know what I'm talking about...........
The fact of the matter is you can get some recorders with auto-levels which perform poorly but most are fairly good i.e. sensitive/responsive. The results are dependent on where the recording is made i.e. where you are standing and the quality of recorder. The average punter at the average gig is far more likely to end up with a poor recordering if you use manual levels. The exception would be if you were willing to spend the entire concert standing still/sitting down while monitoring the level meters on your recorder. My advice allows your average gig-goer with little money to both enjoy (look-at) a concert and end up with a reasonable quality recording time after time. Practice makes perfect!
The pro-market tends not to use auto-levels i.e. we are on manual settings but we're in a completely different business. You can get excellent results using both auto or manual settings but auto-levels should deliver better results to your noveice over a period of time.
The fact of the matter is you can get some recorders with auto-levels which perform poorly but most are fairly good i.e. sensitive/responsive. The results are dependent on where the recording is made i.e. where you are standing and the quality of recorder. The average punter at the average gig is far more likely to end up with a poor recordering if you use manual levels. The exception would be if you were willing to spend the entire concert standing still/sitting down while monitoring the level meters on your recorder. My advice allows your average gig-goer with little money to both enjoy (look-at) a concert and end up with a reasonable quality recording time after time. Practice makes perfect!
The pro-market tends not to use auto-levels i.e. we are on manual settings but we're in a completely different business. You can get excellent results using both auto or manual settings but auto-levels should deliver better results to your noveice over a period of time.
-
Tin-Can-Man
- Road Kill
- Posts: 15
- Joined: 23 Sep 2002, 01:00
The difference between me and Drsisters is that I've been working in the prfoessional audio industry for over ten years so should know what I'm talking about...........
The fact of the matter is you can get some recorders with auto-levels which perform poorly but most are fairly good i.e. sensitive/responsive. The results are dependent on where the recording is made i.e. where you are standing and the quality of recorder. The average punter at the average gig is far more likely to end up with a poor recordering if you use manual levels. The exception would be if you were willing to spend the entire concert standing still/sitting down while monitoring the level meters on your recorder. My advice allows your average gig-goer with little money to both enjoy (look-at) a concert and end up with a reasonable quality recording time after time. Practice makes perfect!
The pro-market tends not to use auto-levels i.e. we are on manual settings but we're in a completely different business. You can get excellent results using both auto or manual settings but auto-levels should deliver better results to your noveice over a period of time.
The fact of the matter is you can get some recorders with auto-levels which perform poorly but most are fairly good i.e. sensitive/responsive. The results are dependent on where the recording is made i.e. where you are standing and the quality of recorder. The average punter at the average gig is far more likely to end up with a poor recordering if you use manual levels. The exception would be if you were willing to spend the entire concert standing still/sitting down while monitoring the level meters on your recorder. My advice allows your average gig-goer with little money to both enjoy (look-at) a concert and end up with a reasonable quality recording time after time. Practice makes perfect!
The pro-market tends not to use auto-levels i.e. we are on manual settings but we're in a completely different business. You can get excellent results using both auto or manual settings but auto-levels should deliver better results to your noveice over a period of time.
-
Tin-Can-Man
- Road Kill
- Posts: 15
- Joined: 23 Sep 2002, 01:00
The difference between me and Drsisters is that I've been working in the prfoessional audio industry for over ten years so should know what I'm talking about...........
The fact of the matter is you can get some recorders with auto-levels which perform poorly but most are fairly good i.e. sensitive/responsive. The results are dependent on where the recording is made i.e. where you are standing and the quality of recorder. The average punter at the average gig is far more likely to end up with a poor recordering if you use manual levels. The exception would be if you were willing to spend the entire concert standing still/sitting down while monitoring the level meters on your recorder. My advice allows your average gig-goer with little money to both enjoy (look-at) a concert and end up with a reasonable quality recording time after time. Practice makes perfect!
The pro-market tends not to use auto-levels i.e. we are on manual settings but we're in a completely different business. You can get excellent results using both auto or manual settings but auto-levels should deliver better results to your noveice over a period of time.
The fact of the matter is you can get some recorders with auto-levels which perform poorly but most are fairly good i.e. sensitive/responsive. The results are dependent on where the recording is made i.e. where you are standing and the quality of recorder. The average punter at the average gig is far more likely to end up with a poor recordering if you use manual levels. The exception would be if you were willing to spend the entire concert standing still/sitting down while monitoring the level meters on your recorder. My advice allows your average gig-goer with little money to both enjoy (look-at) a concert and end up with a reasonable quality recording time after time. Practice makes perfect!
The pro-market tends not to use auto-levels i.e. we are on manual settings but we're in a completely different business. You can get excellent results using both auto or manual settings but auto-levels should deliver better results to your noveice over a period of time.
-
Tin-Can-Man
- Road Kill
- Posts: 15
- Joined: 23 Sep 2002, 01:00
The difference between me and Drsisters is that I've been working in the prfoessional audio industry for over ten years so should know what I'm talking about...........
The fact of the matter is you can get some recorders with auto-levels which perform poorly but most are fairly good i.e. sensitive/responsive. The results are dependent on where the recording is made i.e. where you are standing and the quality of recorder. The average punter at the average gig is far more likely to end up with a poor recordering if you use manual levels. The exception would be if you were willing to spend the entire concert standing still/sitting down while monitoring the level meters on your recorder. My advice allows your average gig-goer with little money to both enjoy (look-at) a concert and end up with a reasonable quality recording time after time. Practice makes perfect!
The pro-market tends not to use auto-levels i.e. we are on manual settings but we're in a completely different business. You can get excellent results using both auto or manual settings but auto-levels should deliver better results to your noveice over a period of time.
The fact of the matter is you can get some recorders with auto-levels which perform poorly but most are fairly good i.e. sensitive/responsive. The results are dependent on where the recording is made i.e. where you are standing and the quality of recorder. The average punter at the average gig is far more likely to end up with a poor recordering if you use manual levels. The exception would be if you were willing to spend the entire concert standing still/sitting down while monitoring the level meters on your recorder. My advice allows your average gig-goer with little money to both enjoy (look-at) a concert and end up with a reasonable quality recording time after time. Practice makes perfect!
The pro-market tends not to use auto-levels i.e. we are on manual settings but we're in a completely different business. You can get excellent results using both auto or manual settings but auto-levels should deliver better results to your noveice over a period of time.
stay away from using manual settings in recording environments,
if you want a decent recording buy the best gear you can afford
mics are most important - stay away from binaural mics get a
mic which is partially omni-partially cardiod. That way you get
something that can reject crowd noise and room boom and not be
too sensitive to you moving around abit. large movements puts
awful phasing on your recordings. If you can fasten the mic to
a wall or 'feature' then go for a cardiod mic.
Pick somewhere good to stand where you aren't inthe mosh pit
or near drunkards or where the PA is absolutely ripping your head
off. Set the level to manual and when the band intro music starts
(most bands have it) set your levels to about -12dB on the levels
scale (if your recorder has a level meter - DAT machines do).
For the first song be anal and keep and eye on the levels make sure
the loud peaks in the song don't go above -2dB, this give a bit of
headroom. you are now usually set up well enough to get a decent
recording. If you 'know' the music watch out for when things may
get even louder and adjust in advance, periodically check your
metering and thats about all you need to do. This will get better results
than manual agc which certainly don't give much headroom and
often give over bassy recordings with pumping artifacts on them
du to the agc and input compression. manual metering insn't that
difficult and I would say that unless you get it really badly wrong
it will sound better than an auto level recording. PA levels at gigs
are pretty constant and only really vary when there are solo
instruments are in the PA (probably something to do with harmonic
ditortion and non linearity) its nowhere near as bad as say taping
classical or acoustic music. Use this method and within a couple of tries
you should be getting decent results
w
[quote="
The fact of the matter is you can get some recorders with auto-levels which perform poorly but most are fairly good i.e. sensitive/responsive. The results are dependent on where the recording is made i.e. where you are standing and the quality of recorder. The average punter at the average gig is far more likely to end up with a poor recordering if you use manual levels. The exception would be if you were willing to spend the entire concert standing still/sitting down while monitoring the level meters on your recorder. My advice allows your average gig-goer with little money to both enjoy (look-at) a concert and end up with a reasonable quality recording time after time. Practice makes perfect!
The pro-market tends not to use auto-levels i.e. we are on manual settings but we're in a completely different business. You can get excellent results using both auto or manual settings but auto-levels should deliver better results to your noveice over a period of time.[/quote]
if you want a decent recording buy the best gear you can afford
mics are most important - stay away from binaural mics get a
mic which is partially omni-partially cardiod. That way you get
something that can reject crowd noise and room boom and not be
too sensitive to you moving around abit. large movements puts
awful phasing on your recordings. If you can fasten the mic to
a wall or 'feature' then go for a cardiod mic.
Pick somewhere good to stand where you aren't inthe mosh pit
or near drunkards or where the PA is absolutely ripping your head
off. Set the level to manual and when the band intro music starts
(most bands have it) set your levels to about -12dB on the levels
scale (if your recorder has a level meter - DAT machines do).
For the first song be anal and keep and eye on the levels make sure
the loud peaks in the song don't go above -2dB, this give a bit of
headroom. you are now usually set up well enough to get a decent
recording. If you 'know' the music watch out for when things may
get even louder and adjust in advance, periodically check your
metering and thats about all you need to do. This will get better results
than manual agc which certainly don't give much headroom and
often give over bassy recordings with pumping artifacts on them
du to the agc and input compression. manual metering insn't that
difficult and I would say that unless you get it really badly wrong
it will sound better than an auto level recording. PA levels at gigs
are pretty constant and only really vary when there are solo
instruments are in the PA (probably something to do with harmonic
ditortion and non linearity) its nowhere near as bad as say taping
classical or acoustic music. Use this method and within a couple of tries
you should be getting decent results
w
[quote="
The fact of the matter is you can get some recorders with auto-levels which perform poorly but most are fairly good i.e. sensitive/responsive. The results are dependent on where the recording is made i.e. where you are standing and the quality of recorder. The average punter at the average gig is far more likely to end up with a poor recordering if you use manual levels. The exception would be if you were willing to spend the entire concert standing still/sitting down while monitoring the level meters on your recorder. My advice allows your average gig-goer with little money to both enjoy (look-at) a concert and end up with a reasonable quality recording time after time. Practice makes perfect!
The pro-market tends not to use auto-levels i.e. we are on manual settings but we're in a completely different business. You can get excellent results using both auto or manual settings but auto-levels should deliver better results to your noveice over a period of time.[/quote]
stay away from using manual settings in recording environments,
if you want a decent recording buy the best gear you can afford
mics are most important - stay away from binaural mics get a
mic which is partially omni-partially cardiod. That way you get
something that can reject crowd noise and room boom and not be
too sensitive to you moving around abit. large movements puts
awful phasing on your recordings. If you can fasten the mic to
a wall or 'feature' then go for a cardiod mic.
Pick somewhere good to stand where you aren't inthe mosh pit
or near drunkards or where the PA is absolutely ripping your head
off. Set the level to manual and when the band intro music starts
(most bands have it) set your levels to about -12dB on the levels
scale (if your recorder has a level meter - DAT machines do).
For the first song be anal and keep and eye on the levels make sure
the loud peaks in the song don't go above -2dB, this give a bit of
headroom. you are now usually set up well enough to get a decent
recording. If you 'know' the music watch out for when things may
get even louder and adjust in advance, periodically check your
metering and thats about all you need to do. This will get better results
than manual agc which certainly don't give much headroom and
often give over bassy recordings with pumping artifacts on them
du to the agc and input compression. manual metering insn't that
difficult and I would say that unless you get it really badly wrong
it will sound better than an auto level recording. PA levels at gigs
are pretty constant and only really vary when there are solo
instruments are in the PA (probably something to do with harmonic
ditortion and non linearity) its nowhere near as bad as say taping
classical or acoustic music. Use this method and within a couple of tries
you should be getting decent results
w
[quote="
The fact of the matter is you can get some recorders with auto-levels which perform poorly but most are fairly good i.e. sensitive/responsive. The results are dependent on where the recording is made i.e. where you are standing and the quality of recorder. The average punter at the average gig is far more likely to end up with a poor recordering if you use manual levels. The exception would be if you were willing to spend the entire concert standing still/sitting down while monitoring the level meters on your recorder. My advice allows your average gig-goer with little money to both enjoy (look-at) a concert and end up with a reasonable quality recording time after time. Practice makes perfect!
The pro-market tends not to use auto-levels i.e. we are on manual settings but we're in a completely different business. You can get excellent results using both auto or manual settings but auto-levels should deliver better results to your noveice over a period of time.[/quote]
if you want a decent recording buy the best gear you can afford
mics are most important - stay away from binaural mics get a
mic which is partially omni-partially cardiod. That way you get
something that can reject crowd noise and room boom and not be
too sensitive to you moving around abit. large movements puts
awful phasing on your recordings. If you can fasten the mic to
a wall or 'feature' then go for a cardiod mic.
Pick somewhere good to stand where you aren't inthe mosh pit
or near drunkards or where the PA is absolutely ripping your head
off. Set the level to manual and when the band intro music starts
(most bands have it) set your levels to about -12dB on the levels
scale (if your recorder has a level meter - DAT machines do).
For the first song be anal and keep and eye on the levels make sure
the loud peaks in the song don't go above -2dB, this give a bit of
headroom. you are now usually set up well enough to get a decent
recording. If you 'know' the music watch out for when things may
get even louder and adjust in advance, periodically check your
metering and thats about all you need to do. This will get better results
than manual agc which certainly don't give much headroom and
often give over bassy recordings with pumping artifacts on them
du to the agc and input compression. manual metering insn't that
difficult and I would say that unless you get it really badly wrong
it will sound better than an auto level recording. PA levels at gigs
are pretty constant and only really vary when there are solo
instruments are in the PA (probably something to do with harmonic
ditortion and non linearity) its nowhere near as bad as say taping
classical or acoustic music. Use this method and within a couple of tries
you should be getting decent results
w
[quote="
The fact of the matter is you can get some recorders with auto-levels which perform poorly but most are fairly good i.e. sensitive/responsive. The results are dependent on where the recording is made i.e. where you are standing and the quality of recorder. The average punter at the average gig is far more likely to end up with a poor recordering if you use manual levels. The exception would be if you were willing to spend the entire concert standing still/sitting down while monitoring the level meters on your recorder. My advice allows your average gig-goer with little money to both enjoy (look-at) a concert and end up with a reasonable quality recording time after time. Practice makes perfect!
The pro-market tends not to use auto-levels i.e. we are on manual settings but we're in a completely different business. You can get excellent results using both auto or manual settings but auto-levels should deliver better results to your noveice over a period of time.[/quote]
stay away from using manual settings in recording environments,
if you want a decent recording buy the best gear you can afford
mics are most important - stay away from binaural mics get a
mic which is partially omni-partially cardiod. That way you get
something that can reject crowd noise and room boom and not be
too sensitive to you moving around abit. large movements puts
awful phasing on your recordings. If you can fasten the mic to
a wall or 'feature' then go for a cardiod mic.
Pick somewhere good to stand where you aren't inthe mosh pit
or near drunkards or where the PA is absolutely ripping your head
off. Set the level to manual and when the band intro music starts
(most bands have it) set your levels to about -12dB on the levels
scale (if your recorder has a level meter - DAT machines do).
For the first song be anal and keep and eye on the levels make sure
the loud peaks in the song don't go above -2dB, this give a bit of
headroom. you are now usually set up well enough to get a decent
recording. If you 'know' the music watch out for when things may
get even louder and adjust in advance, periodically check your
metering and thats about all you need to do. This will get better results
than manual agc which certainly don't give much headroom and
often give over bassy recordings with pumping artifacts on them
du to the agc and input compression. manual metering insn't that
difficult and I would say that unless you get it really badly wrong
it will sound better than an auto level recording. PA levels at gigs
are pretty constant and only really vary when there are solo
instruments are in the PA (probably something to do with harmonic
ditortion and non linearity) its nowhere near as bad as say taping
classical or acoustic music. Use this method and within a couple of tries
you should be getting decent results
w
if you want a decent recording buy the best gear you can afford
mics are most important - stay away from binaural mics get a
mic which is partially omni-partially cardiod. That way you get
something that can reject crowd noise and room boom and not be
too sensitive to you moving around abit. large movements puts
awful phasing on your recordings. If you can fasten the mic to
a wall or 'feature' then go for a cardiod mic.
Pick somewhere good to stand where you aren't inthe mosh pit
or near drunkards or where the PA is absolutely ripping your head
off. Set the level to manual and when the band intro music starts
(most bands have it) set your levels to about -12dB on the levels
scale (if your recorder has a level meter - DAT machines do).
For the first song be anal and keep and eye on the levels make sure
the loud peaks in the song don't go above -2dB, this give a bit of
headroom. you are now usually set up well enough to get a decent
recording. If you 'know' the music watch out for when things may
get even louder and adjust in advance, periodically check your
metering and thats about all you need to do. This will get better results
than manual agc which certainly don't give much headroom and
often give over bassy recordings with pumping artifacts on them
du to the agc and input compression. manual metering insn't that
difficult and I would say that unless you get it really badly wrong
it will sound better than an auto level recording. PA levels at gigs
are pretty constant and only really vary when there are solo
instruments are in the PA (probably something to do with harmonic
ditortion and non linearity) its nowhere near as bad as say taping
classical or acoustic music. Use this method and within a couple of tries
you should be getting decent results
w
