2023-09-22 The Roundhouse, London, UK

Gig news, reviews, set lists, thoughts, comments and observations on The Sisters 2023 tour.
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godgirl
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MrChris wrote: 26 Sep 2023, 14:24 Interesting perspective Stiltfoxx, you get the honour of being a gig that will go down in folklore anyway. Welcome to the forum!
See, some people just don't appreciate that it's when something is unusual that the most memorable nights are made! :lol: :lol: :lol:

I remember more of the gigs that went weird than ones which just... happened. I remember an endless encore medley at Eurorock in 1998 and about 3 minutes of Vegas in 2006...
I remember Von thowing his mic stand into the audience at M'era Luna in 2002 and everyone bunching up to hide big Tomas from security.

There's so many more little stories, but what I rarely remember any of is gigs that just played out.
Maybe some of it was alcohol and the "incidents" were moments of sudden sobriety, who knows?
Maybe it was that the rest just blend together?

I'll certainly remember watching Von walk over to Dylan and politely escort him back into the wings.

:oops:
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godgirl
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Pista wrote: 26 Sep 2023, 07:48 A review with a handful of photos
".... Dylan Smith’s origins are probably somewhere on the internet, but wherever they are they’re not easy to find"
ummm...

" ...laptop man’s origins are as difficult to discover as his name is.... "

ummm...

Not the most astute journalist here, was he?
Totally agree on the Barbour jacket thing though.
Please everyone, do leave those coats, jackets, bags and the like in the cloakroom.

Still, now Brighton and Hove cultural types will know something about nothing.
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godgirl wrote: 28 Sep 2023, 10:14 Still, now Brighton and Hove cultural types will know something about nothing.
:lol:
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godgirl wrote: 28 Sep 2023, 10:14 Totally agree on the Barbour jacket thing though.
"For example, a posh sounding bloke in a Barbour jacket pushes past me on his way to the front. He’s going to be uncomfortably hot in that jacket….. I really didn’t think that I’d ever see anyone so attired at a Sisters gig."

That would have been me and yes, I was hot till I took it off.

But "posh sounding"? I'm an American and am not even familiar with that word.
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bismarck
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The offending garment

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godgirl
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bismarck wrote: 28 Sep 2023, 17:32 The offending garment

Image
Arguably in this particular photo, it's hard to say which outfit might be considered more offensive! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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bismarck
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godgirl wrote: 28 Sep 2023, 18:00 Arguably in this particular photo, it's hard to say which outfit might be considered more offensive! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Excellent point
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bismarck wrote: 28 Sep 2023, 17:11
godgirl wrote: 28 Sep 2023, 10:14 Totally agree on the Barbour jacket thing though.
"For example, a posh sounding bloke in a Barbour jacket pushes past me on his way to the front. He’s going to be uncomfortably hot in that jacket….. I really didn’t think that I’d ever see anyone so attired at a Sisters gig."

That would have been me and yes, I was hot till I took it off.

But "posh sounding"? I'm an American and am not even familiar with that word.
I live in the wet, cold, west of Scotland. I consider Barbour jackets to be extremely practical items of clothing :D
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bismarck wrote: 28 Sep 2023, 17:32 The offending garment

Image
From the archives of the BBC " a fine example of the vibrant British music scene, two fans of The Sisters of Mercy in full Gothic regalia pose outside a Camden hostelry" Colourised 2023
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ribbons69 wrote: 29 Sep 2023, 08:08 From the archives of the BBC " a fine example of the vibrant British music scene, two fans of The Sisters of Mercy in full Gothic regalia pose outside a Camden hostelry" Colourised 2023
:lol: :lol: :lol: :notworthy:

edit : that is an utterly magnificent picture, gents :notworthy: nevermind the subject matter, that's yer cover photo for WFAW v2 right there Trevor 8)
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Planet Dave wrote: 29 Sep 2023, 09:08that is an utterly magnificent picture, gents :notworthy: nevermind the subject matter, that's yer cover photo for WFAW v2 right there Trevor 8)
ribbons69 wrote: 29 Sep 2023, 08:08 From the archives of the BBC " a fine example of the vibrant British music scene, two fans of The Sisters of Mercy in full Gothic regalia pose outside a Camden hostelry" Colourised 2023
:lol: I actually did laugh out loud here
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MORE TOTALLY IDLE, BASELESS SPECULATION

I reckon Dylan was given his papers before the Roundhouse gigs.

Having looked at a lot more footage now, , he's not just annoyed or irritated, he's also fairly listless and uninvested. It looks like he's giving it the bare minimum he can get away with, really, until the majority of the set is done. It is a bit hard for me to imagine that someone in the Sisters would get that agitated about a bad sound mix, to be fair. It's not exactly uncharted territory for them is it. :lol:

That may indicate that it he'd recently been advised "these are your last gigs" or "this is your last year in the band" or similar, perhaps without expecting it (doesn't Von have form for short-notice firings?). The Roundhouse gigs are the first ones back following a month off, so it's possible he was informed somewhere in that time.

How's this for a possible version of events:
  1. Von and Chris work out a timeline for his return to the band (to be fair, people have long suggested this was in the works, or that they were collaborating on something); let's say arbitrarily "the start of next year"
  2. The band settles down for a month after doing European festivals in August; rather tell Dylan he's fired and risk him quitting before Chris is ready to return, thus forcing a search for a fill-in guitarist in a month, Von instead keeps shtum about his intentions.
  3. At the last possible moment, where it's more likely that Dylan will stick it out for financial reasons, he's informed that it's his last year (or whatever) with the band. We know Von can be ruthless like this.
  4. Dylan attempts to play the shows through gritted teeth because, c'mon, it's not so lucrative a gig that he makes enough money from it that he can afford to quit partway through a touring commitment
  5. No idea whether Cref's 'carer's leave' was known in advance or due to an emergency, but Chris is drafted in as nurse, at least in the short term, because he knows the ropes and is available
  6. I'd previously rejected the idea that Dylan felt 'insecure' or whatnot by Chris's presence , and I still think it would be bizarre if he was unaware of the ongoing friendship with Eldritch there. I also doubt that he would object to Chris as nurse under ordinary circumstances - as I said earlier, a guitarist would probably want a former Sisters guitarist nursing, if Ravey's not there. BUT maybe the thing that caused him to throw his toys out of the pram, consequences be damned, is that he felt that he lost a final bit of leverage: "they can't do it without me right now" is out the window, so he might have just said, bugger this.
My prediction:
  • Continue with one guitarist for the show's they'd hoped to retain Dylan for, with variously Chris or Ravey as nurse. Don't think we'll see Chris on guitar before then, if he will be returning to that role at all; I think if Chris were able to commit to that, they'd have sacked Dylan, got Chris back, and found someone else to act as replacement nurse.
  • Chris Catalyst returns to the band during the next break between gigs - the Christo/Smith/Eldritch songs will be interesting with him on them. Alternatively, they bring a new guitarist in instead. I don't really think they'll continue indefinitely with only one guitarist, unless it proves to be an astounding success. Would be nice if this prompted Von to complete a few more songs with a songwriting credit for Chris/whoever, as a means of giving the new guitarist some a performance royalty income stream.
  • Dylan either tells everyone who will listen the circumstances or his departure or tells them that Von made him sign an NDA or something.
If any of this absolutely made-up guessing turns out to be true, my questions are:
  • Did Ben know in advance? We know he and Dylan are dear friends from way back, has he been blindsided by the exit too?
  • Is Ravey's absence really temporary? Even the reasons there are hearsay aren't they? Has he quit/been fired too? Is Dylan's departure related to Ravey's absence?
You can tell I've been in a lot of bands with murky interpersonal politics, can't you.
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Fallon wrote: 30 Sep 2023, 03:12 It is a bit hard for me to imagine that someone in the Sisters would get that agitated about a bad sound mix
Chris Starling, 2003-ish. Crowds too lively during Something Fast.

But that's a fair point. Sound issues usually come with the territory for a Sisters guitarist.
Fallon wrote: 30 Sep 2023, 03:12 [*]No idea whether Cref's 'carer's leave' was known in advance or due to an emergency, but Chris is drafted in as nurse, at least in the short term, because he knows the ropes and is available

According to this Chris interview, he was asked to do the whole tour as Nurse beforehand.
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Planet Dave
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Nonsense. In fact, Dylan was kidnapped pre-gig by those pesky m*****n kids, and the guitarist on stage was actually Hussey in a wig and on stilts, trying to sabotage the show.
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bismarck wrote: 26 Sep 2023, 16:05 If anyone's interested to see what the band is capable of in 2023, New York City is a great example:

Oh yeah, thanks to Planet Dave we even have stored some coverart for it here ... :D ...
https://sisterswiki.org/Kings_Theatre_B ... 2023_(DVD)
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Fallon wrote: 30 Sep 2023, 03:12 MORE TOTALLY IDLE, BASELESS SPECULATION

My prediction:
  • Continue with one guitarist for the show's they'd hoped to retain Dylan for, with variously Chris or Ravey as nurse...
I was ok with the sound of one guitar. BEst would be to bring back Ravey as nurse and put Chris on bass.
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My theory for Von's resistance to the idea of bringing in a live bassist again is that he is the bass composer. Whatever else can be said about him, he writes a hell of a bassline, and always has done - I think it's a true gift he has (Driven Like The Snow, Giving Ground... who can argue with these basslines?), and I think that if you take away the persona, take away the Sisters' reputation, and image and all that, you'd have no choice but to say that musically, basslines are his forte.

So maybe he doesn't want to have to share bass-writing duties with anyone, and maybe he sees no artistic benefit to having the basslines played live - particularly the ones which were composed with the specific intention of being sequenced. Von's always said that he believes that you can program 'feel' into electronically-sequenced music, and I think that he writes basslines electronically, sequences them electronically, and may in fact view the notion of having someone else play them as counter-productive.

I remember an earlier long-form Chris Catalyst interview (post-Sisters) where he says that he'd floated the idea of being the bassist to Von and the answer was no. So I think there's an active intention to leave live bass playing off the stage.
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Well, Ben has played bass on Romeo (and Giving Ground?) previously, so it's not completely out of the question. But I guess that's not happening on this tour, unless Chris can do some multitasking :)

But yeah, having a full time live bassist is probably another matter...
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Fallon
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Yeah but Adam wrote the bass on Romeo, and the song doesn't work with a sequenced bassline. There'll always be exceptions, but I guess my broader point is that I think Andrew writes the basslines these days, in general, and probably doesn't need a full time player for that reason.
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On the topic of Dylan leaving, if he contributed to writing Here, Show Me, I Will Call You, and other wonderful songs, then I am really sorry that this happened. Sounds like it was fairly contentious, the way it went down. And it sounds like Dylan didn't handle this well, which is a shame, but Andrew is the main boss, and it's his job to keep this from happening, and I don't think that he has handled his side of things great. At the US show when I saw them, Ben and Dylan were giving it their all, but Andrew was the one who sometimes skipped his vocal lines, for whatever reason (technical issues, etc.). I was borderline shocked that they would want to keep playing and doing their part. What's a bit frustrating is that Andrew can still deliver, as evidenced by some of the wonderful recordings from the US tour that people have posted online. I do hope that they are at least able to reconcile on personal level, and that European shows go well (sounds like they have improved!). And that they continue to put out excellent music, even if it's ultimately not recorded in studio.
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Fallon wrote: 30 Sep 2023, 03:12 MORE TOTALLY IDLE, BASELESS SPECULATION

I reckon Dylan was given his papers before the Roundhouse gigs.
This is possible but I doubt it would cause him to stomp off mid set (let alone mid-tour) - unless Von handled it spectacularly badly (which I'll allow has a better than zero chance).

Dylan's a professional and he knows that the thing that will kill your future career isn't not being very good, but not being very reliable. Plenty of mid-tier pro musicians get regular work purely because they turn up and play every night and don't get salty about the stuff they can't control. Dylan's better than mid-tier but he's also not god-tier to the extent that people will line up to work with him despite knowing his flaws. Anyone with a brain going into the Sisters knows it's Von's band. They know there are reasons why they never had the same lineup from one album to the next. They know that Von is ... well he's Von. If Von tells you halfway through the tour, 'don't bother turning up for the afterparty at the end of the tour' then, you shrug, you start looking for other work and you play out the rest of your contract to show the people who might be interested in you afterwards that you're a pro and you aren't going to introduce new drama into their existing sets of band drama.
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If Dylan was indeed escorted off of the stage by security, you can be sure that there were some very serious problems going on. Well then, so much for professionalism! Also, if Eldritch was wasted, as was alleged, that only compounds things. What’s amazing to my mind is how hard Ben worked to keep things together. For this reason alone, he deserves the lion’s share of the credit for any success the concert may have had.
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Did a bit of facebook-"stalking" (it wasn't that difficult its all out in the open) due to all the speculations and found out Dylan is spending time with his mother in the Netherlands. Yep, that's were Dylan and his girlfriend lives as most of you already know. He looks very happy by the way, judging from ONE picture. At ease. I'm no doctor, but i dont think we need to worry about his health. I don't believe his mother traveled there to "save him", rather to spend time with him, birthday and all, when he suddenly werent to busy touring Europe anymore. So im closing the Dylans gone Syd Barret case, and leaving the rest to you.
Last edited by Depprocksfarfar on 03 Oct 2023, 20:15, edited 5 times in total.
Bartek
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You (some) people scare me a lot with the obsession with the band members.
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Bartek wrote: 03 Oct 2023, 19:24 You (some) people scare me a lot with the obsession with the band members.
Hate to break it to you, but this IS the place for obsession! 😁
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