NEW SONGS!

[Pista]

Not to mention all of the NDAs needed to keep gossip mongers at bay.

Do you have a source for these apochryfal NDA's? What gossip would he be worrying about? He sacked a guitarist? The Sisters are not Metallica or the Rolling Stones, outside in the real world no-one cares about some old rock band from Leeds.

Can't let the world know that Von stays young and vigorous by extracting adrenochrome from young and impressionable fans....

[GC]

We've been talking about this for thirty years now but it boils down to;
Von really doesn't want to make a record.
Von has no need or incentive to make a record.
Ergo he isn't going to make a record.

If I have a task that is unpleasant that I don't want to do, but also that I don't need to do it, then you can be assured that I'm not going to do it. Why would I?

He cant release a record because he's still under contract (east west, strike, lawsuit.. whatever). Thats the only reason IMO.

There are no other reasons not to relaease anything (over the last thirty years) unless he just could nt. He has a million streams on Spotify every month and therefore a good market. NMA has 150000 pm, they release an album every two years.... and for them it seems worth while. His hands are tied.

"No other reasons"
The reason is that he doesn't want to do it. Why is that so hard for people to contemplate?

"Does nt want to do it" covers maybe a year or two, maybe 10 years of not being bothered. AE has not released anything new now since he was 30. I believe that he really wanted to release Summer with a new album around 2001 (correct me if Im wrong about the date) but suddenly realised that this would legally not be possible.

If he's not bothered why would he still write new songs and (more importantly) play them live. That shows hes still being creative and, seeing that half of the live output is prerecorded, still in a studio.

[eastmidswhizzkid]

thats it -in the face of adversity a bloody minded refusal to accepts the facts will get us through. only kidding GC -hope still springs eternal here too.

[Bartek]

Maybe because he can he still can, maybe because.

[Bartek]

Well, lets do the hypothetical dane: you can record and mix it whatever you want nowadays, you can put vox so loud and so in from of everyother instrument, noise and sound in the mix that it would be audiable enough to carry the lyrics. If you want.
Meanwhile it been 32 years since last full studio album. It's enough to realize it not gonna happen.

Yep, very hard to argue with that. 32 years is a long time. But things change. First off, if you go back a few years, the idea that they'd add a new guitarist and trot out ten songs or so that were really good and worked well - effectively a fourth album, just performed live rather than recorded - would have seemed very unlikely. For literally decades, people had been saying 'He's scared to put anything out because he's left it so long it couldn't compete with the past etc" And then he did.

And of all the criticisms lobbed at him, I haven't heard many people say the new songs are s**t. They're not, they're really really good. So that's data point one - something very very unlikely has actually already happened. Ergo, it could happen again.

Secondly, this situation will come to an end. There will be a point where ill health, a failing voice and/or band disintegration will make it impossible or undesirable to tour. He's not a young man, and his tour almost fell apart this time. So there is change on the horizon - either Chris C steps back up into guitar when Dave is back, or Dylan returns, or Von says to himself 'it's been a good run, I'll quit now." If that last one happens then that's it. No more Sisters.

But I can also imagine a situation where he thinks to himself, 'okay, if I'm not touring anymore, I'll do an album' to leave a record of the songs, and to steer some residual cash towards the guys like Ben, Chris, Dave and Dylan who don't technically 'own' a part of the sisters, but have kept the band afloat as hired hands for almost 20 years. See where I'm going with this? Now, he might not. But he might.

But in all this the one thing we can be absolutely 100 per cent certain of, is change.

So basically, can we agree that it's totally up to him to decide if and when(ever) he wats to record and release it.

BTW, at one think he is very consistent in his statement - nowadays you're not making money out of recording, Spotify and other streaming services is not a source of income unless your song(s) hit billions of play, the only reason would be to tell press and fans: this is something new we got, we will be promoting it live, come and see; which is not a case with the Sisters it's done, people and press know it, by the sheer fact.

[TheGoodSon]

Well, lets do the hypothetical dane: you can record and mix it whatever you want nowadays, you can put vox so loud and so in from of everyother instrument, noise and sound in the mix that it would be audiable enough to carry the lyrics. If you want.
Meanwhile it been 32 years since last full studio album. It's enough to realize it not gonna happen.

Yep, very hard to argue with that. 32 years is a long time. But things change. First off, if you go back a few years, the idea that they'd add a new guitarist and trot out ten songs or so that were really good and worked well - effectively a fourth album, just performed live rather than recorded - would have seemed very unlikely. For literally decades, people had been saying 'He's scared to put anything out because he's left it so long it couldn't compete with the past etc" And then he did.

And of all the criticisms lobbed at him, I haven't heard many people say the new songs are s**t. They're not, they're really really good. So that's data point one - something very very unlikely has actually already happened. Ergo, it could happen again.

Secondly, this situation will come to an end. There will be a point where ill health, a failing voice and/or band disintegration will make it impossible or undesirable to tour. He's not a young man, and his tour almost fell apart this time. So there is change on the horizon - either Chris C steps back up into guitar when Dave is back, or Dylan returns, or Von says to himself 'it's been a good run, I'll quit now." If that last one happens then that's it. No more Sisters.

But I can also imagine a situation where he thinks to himself, 'okay, if I'm not touring anymore, I'll do an album' to leave a record of the songs, and to steer some residual cash towards the guys like Ben, Chris, Dave and Dylan who don't technically 'own' a part of the sisters, but have kept the band afloat as hired hands for almost 20 years. See where I'm going with this? Now, he might not. But he might.

But in all this the one thing we can be absolutely 100 per cent certain of, is change.

So basically, can we agree that it's totally up to him to decide if and when(ever) he wats to record and release it.

BTW, at one think he is very consistent in his statement - nowadays you're not making money out of recording, Spotify and other streaming services is not a source of income unless your song(s) hit billions of play, the only reason would be to tell press and fans: this is something new we got, we will be promoting it live, come and see; which is not a case with the Sisters it's done, people and press know it, by the sheer fact.

Agree 100% that making music these days is quite possibly the worst moneymaking scheme out there. Records hardly sell, streaming services provide very small revenues.
But, stepping away from The Sisters specifically for a moment: does that then mean that ALL bands whose name/brand is big enough to sell concert tickets even without the "promotional push" that a record can give should stop putting out new music? That that would be The Smart Thing To Do? I´m talking everyone from Taylor Swift to Nick Cave to Metallica. Should they all just stop releasing new music, because they still sell tickets? Is that the kind of the musical landscape that we want, one that exists only in the live venues?
I think this is a very fascinating discussion.

[GC]

Yep, very hard to argue with that. 32 years is a long time. But things change. First off, if you go back a few years, the idea that they'd add a new guitarist and trot out ten songs or so that were really good and worked well - effectively a fourth album, just performed live rather than recorded - would have seemed very unlikely. For literally decades, people had been saying 'He's scared to put anything out because he's left it so long it couldn't compete with the past etc" And then he did.

And of all the criticisms lobbed at him, I haven't heard many people say the new songs are s**t. They're not, they're really really good. So that's data point one - something very very unlikely has actually already happened. Ergo, it could happen again.

Secondly, this situation will come to an end. There will be a point where ill health, a failing voice and/or band disintegration will make it impossible or undesirable to tour. He's not a young man, and his tour almost fell apart this time. So there is change on the horizon - either Chris C steps back up into guitar when Dave is back, or Dylan returns, or Von says to himself 'it's been a good run, I'll quit now." If that last one happens then that's it. No more Sisters.

But I can also imagine a situation where he thinks to himself, 'okay, if I'm not touring anymore, I'll do an album' to leave a record of the songs, and to steer some residual cash towards the guys like Ben, Chris, Dave and Dylan who don't technically 'own' a part of the sisters, but have kept the band afloat as hired hands for almost 20 years. See where I'm going with this? Now, he might not. But he might.

But in all this the one thing we can be absolutely 100 per cent certain of, is change.

So basically, can we agree that it's totally up to him to decide if and when(ever) he wats to record and release it.

BTW, at one think he is very consistent in his statement - nowadays you're not making money out of recording, Spotify and other streaming services is not a source of income unless your song(s) hit billions of play, the only reason would be to tell press and fans: this is something new we got, we will be promoting it live, come and see; which is not a case with the Sisters it's done, people and press know it, by the sheer fact.

Agree 100% that making music these days is quite possibly the worst moneymaking scheme out there. Records hardly sell, streaming services provide very small revenues.
But, stepping away from The Sisters specifically for a moment: does that then mean that ALL bands whose name/brand is big enough to sell concert tickets even without the "promotional push" that a record can give should stop putting out new music? That that would be The Smart Thing To Do? I´m talking everyone from Taylor Swift to Nick Cave to Metallica. Should they all just stop releasing new music, because they still sell tickets? Is that the kind of the musical landscape that we want, one that exists only in the live venues?
I think this is a very fascinating discussion.

But then if there is no money to be had from releasing anything I think maybe a more pertinent question, in the case of The Sisiters is why do small bands with a a smaller following (NMA, Therapy? etc) still release records in multiple formats. There must be some benefit to it apart from purely a creative urge?

[Bartek]

There is a profit, but, according to Von, not worth effort. ROI is too small

[Dan]

So basically, can we agree that it's totally up to him to decide if and when(ever) he wats to record and release it.

I think it's safe to assume at least for the older of the "new" songs that he'll have already recorded them. It's just a case of what he wants to do with them, and when.

[DJW]

There’s also the possibility in this day and age that a new release goes viral.

For example, When I’m on Fire could get picked up by a major sports broadcaster for use in some sort of tournament highlights reel and suddenly they’re back in the mainstream and streaming goes through the roof.

[ribbons69]

There’s also the possibility in this day and age that a new release goes viral.

For example, When I’m on Fire could get picked up by a major sports broadcaster for use in some sort of tournament highlights reel and suddenly they’re back in the mainstream and streaming goes through the roof.

Almost anything is a "possibility" but that doesn't make it likely.

[copper]

if you go back a few years, the idea that they'd add a new guitarist and trot out ten songs or so that were really good and worked well - effectively a fourth album, just performed live rather than recorded - would have seemed very unlikely.

Mirrors the 90's some. After UTG, Von touted a reworked Ritual as a 'new' song (Come Together), but struggled to write an album around it. In '97, Mike Varjak joined the band and suddenly, he and Adam wrote out some real bangers.

[Esoterica]

Some major bands release new material using multiple formats (you still might even find new material on CDs, for example). Overall, the internet really blew a giant hole in copyright law, making it difficult to create revenue streams in the way that older formats did. CDs were “proprietary”—you had to pay for “your copy.” Then came CD burning and file sharing—who gets paid for what? Live shows cut through all of the confusion by saying, “Okay. You pay for a ticket. You see a show. That’s it.” And that’s how we got to where we are now.

[Esoterica]

Oh yes. Just in time for Halloween. Copyright law has a father. His name was Edgar Allan Poe. He was considered quite talented, but somehow he never seemed to be able to earn much from his writing. This led him to fight for his rights. His young wife lay dying while he argued heatedly with his publishers. Think about this as you read his poems and stories, keeping in mind that content doesn’t belong to a computer, it belongs to its creator. Sadly, Poe also had the reputation of being a worthless drunk. A friend said that it was a strange thing with Edgar. It would take only one good drink and he’d end up in the gutter.

Poe died at 40. He was diabetic.

A literary award was named after him. How nice….

[Being645]

A bit early for Halloween, Esoterica, but beyond that ... ... As to copyright from a reader/listener etc perspective it's always been the same
- We will steal what we cannot buy. ... Otherwise we were forced into idiocy... and the 90s were so sucking sadomaso and Darwinist ...

[ExPsichonaut]

Heard the new stutf yesterday, they make Eldo sound like an old jukebox anymore

[Elon]

My take on the lack of recording is ego. AE doesn't want to screw up what he considers a perfect legacy with the three LPs. If he releases something now, especially at the age of hate-fueled social media, there is a risk that it will be a critical and/or commercial failure, and he sees it as a lose-lose proposal. If he needed it for financial reasons, that would be different, but since there is no money to be made releasing records and since the fans are perfectly happy to keep buying tickets to the instrumental gigs, there is just zero upside for him.

[Todashi]

But in all this the one thing we can be absolutely 100 per cent certain of, is change.

What was that I was saying?

[Todashi]

Speaking of, some nice new arrangements happening - the new end of On The Beach is perfect. Great call from the band - it punctuates the live set and makes that song stand out.

Oh, and I gotta say, the vids I've seen of the two gigs that Kai has played at sounds REALLY good. Dunno what's changed, but things are simultaneously heavier and airier. He seems to have an interesting chugging sound.

[eastmidswhizzkid]

A bit early for Halloween, Esoterica, but beyond that ... ... As to copyright from a reader/listener etc perspective it's always been the same
- We will steal what we cannot buy. ... Otherwise we were forced into idiocy... and the 90s were so sucking sadomaso and Darwinist ...

its never too early for "Hello Ian"! i particularly enjoy all the preparation leading up to it as making WhizzWorld look dark, cobwebby y & skull-ridden takes no time at all! its like that all year round. Dont tend to like peeple called Ian though.... i'd apologise to any Ians on HL but as i dont know any its not meant personally.

[Being645]

A bit early for Halloween, Esoterica, but beyond that ... ... As to copyright from a reader/listener etc perspective it's always been the same
- We will steal what we cannot buy. ... Otherwise we were forced into idiocy... and the 90s were so sucking sadomaso and Darwinist ...

its never too early for "Hello Ian"! i particularly enjoy all the preparation leading up to it as making WhizzWorld look dark, cobwebby y & skull-ridden takes no time at all! its like that all year round. Dont tend to like peeple called Ian though.... i'd apologise to any Ians on HL but as i dont know any its not meant personally.

Fair enough, Brother Lee, and I surely didn't want to shy away anyone ... without variety life was a terrible mess... ...

[eastmidswhizzkid]

A bit early for Halloween, Esoterica, but beyond that ... ... As to copyright from a reader/listener etc perspective it's always been the same
- We will steal what we cannot buy. ... Otherwise we were forced into idiocy... and the 90s were so sucking sadomaso and Darwinist ...

its never too early for "Hello Ian"! i particularly enjoy all the preparation leading up to it as making WhizzWorld look dark, cobwebby y & skull-ridden takes no time at all! its like that all year round. Dont tend to like peeple called Ian though.... i'd apologise to any Ians on HL but as i dont know any its not meant personally.

Fair enough, Brother Lee, and I surely didn't want to shy away anyone ... without variety life was a terrible mess... ...

Please dont take a blind bit of notice of anything i say! my life is slowly falling to pieces in an incredible yet spectacular fashion right now so of course i am conversely surfing through the debris in some kind of end of days euphoria... so my opinions & judgements are questionable..

[Being645]

its never too early for "Hello Ian"! i particularly enjoy all the preparation leading up to it as making WhizzWorld look dark, cobwebby y & skull-ridden takes no time at all! its like that all year round. Dont tend to like peeple called Ian though.... i'd apologise to any Ians on HL but as i dont know any its not meant personally.

Fair enough, Brother Lee, and I surely didn't want to shy away anyone ... without variety life was a terrible mess... ...

Please dont take a blind bit of notice of anything i say! my life is slowly falling to pieces in an incredible yet spectacular fashion right now so of course i am conversely surfing through the debris in some kind of end of days euphoria... so my opinions & judgements are questionable..

Oh yes, that's somewhat obvious, Brother Lee ... ... I hope you enjoy all these tumbles ...

[eastmidswhizzkid]

i dont really enjoy it but this gallows mood is better than being misderable or worse despairing.

[Dan]

My take on the lack of recording is ego. AE doesn't want to screw up what he considers a perfect legacy with the three LPs.

Unfortunately the legacy for all the newer songs is a bunch of not so good live recordings (yes there are some good ones but a lot of sub par stuff). I hope he''s put aside some studio recordings so that one day they can be heard.