Is Von crazy for not making another album?

[z666]

Yeah, but both bands had been pretty active all those years with side projects, it's not the same with the Sisters. There are other examples of bands reunited after years of inactivity, but then again it's a reunion and people judge it differently, like they've been together just the months prior to the release. Eldritch has put himself in a different position. And when I say cosmic I don't mean a new album would receive the mainstream media coverage like Springsteen or whatever. But it definitely would be all over Rock/metal/alternative media. Even in places that hasn't covered any Sisters shows, for good or bad, in decades.

[Yggdrasil]

I've been full circle on this, and I think it's been a mistake for him not to record.

(...)

I also think that creativity is a positive thing, and making things is a positive thing. It's good for our souls, or our mental health or whatever way you want to think of it.

(...)

he's plucked victory from the jaws of defeat, confounded expectations and brought his art to a new high, arguably on a par with his 'golden era.'

(...)

And the album that they've been playing live now for two or three years is really really good.

Agree on everything you wrote, but especially the above. Well put.

[GC]

Yeah, but both bands had been pretty active all those years with side projects, it's not the same with the Sisters. There are other examples of bands reunited after years of inactivity, but then again it's a reunion and people judge it differently, like they've been together just the months prior to the release. Eldritch has put himself in a different position. And when I say cosmic I don't mean a new album would receive the mainstream media coverage like Springsteen or whatever. But it definitely would be all over Rock/metal/alternative media. Even in places that hasn't covered any Sisters shows, for good or bad, in decades.

The no side project is what surprised me

[Pista]

If he thought the new songs were good enough for a new album don't you think he would have green lighted it?
Von's known to be a fussy sod at the best of times.
Besides, how much involvement has he had? If ex members (and there's been a few) had a part in the new material, it would never see the light of day as a release

[Being645]

If he thought the new songs were good enough for a new album don't you think he would have green lighted it?
Von's known to be a fussy sod at the best of times.
Besides, how much involvement has he had? If ex members (and there's been a few) had a part in the new material, it would never see the light of day as a release

Exactly, and now that Dylan is apparently gone ...

[ribbons69]

What surprises me more is that AE has never released an album outside The Sisters... collaborative or solo (which makes me believe that he is still contactually obliged to someone)

Well, it's certainly either that or you know, he just doesn't want to release a record.

[z666]

By the way, John Robb shared a post yesterday about having recorded a song for Gary Marx's new album, the name of the band would be M62 apparently. I can't share the post for some reason, but here's the text:

‘I tried to tell her about Marx and Engels…’ celebrating the lyrical genius of #andreweldritch with the legendary Co founder of #thesistersofmercy #garymarx by the #engels statue outside @homemcr in #manchester after we recorded a song together for a great new project Gary has #johnrobb #postpunk #m62band #gothaesthetic #notgoth PLEASE JOIN MY INSTAGRAM"

[Nyth Grandbeard]

By the way, John Robb shared a post yesterday about having recorded a song for Gary Marx's new album, the name of the band would be M62 apparently. I can't share the post for some reason, but here's the text:

‘I tried to tell her about Marx and Engels…’ celebrating the lyrical genius of #andreweldritch with the legendary Co founder of #thesistersofmercy #garymarx by the #engels statue outside @homemcr in #manchester after we recorded a song together for a great new project Gary has #johnrobb #postpunk #m62band #gothaesthetic #notgoth PLEASE JOIN MY INSTAGRAM"

always excited for new material from mr Gary Marx

[Ocean Moves]

If he's strong enough that he genuinely doesn't mind what other people want from him, then good for him. I'm jealous. But human beings are social animals, and whether we like it or not, given the choice, we'd rather people approve of us than not.

All the evidence from interviews suggests that Eldritch is satisfied with where he's ended up, and that "following his instincts and cravings" rather than what people want of him got him there. But he also clearly does care what people want from him, in the sense that he ruined his own health to do the recent tour - even more so in that he must have been tempted to pack it in after the Roundhouse debacle - and apologised for the gigs that he just couldn't do.

My point in opening this thread is that Syd Barrett has gone down in history for being "crazy" for walking away from the music industry because it was bad for his health. Similarly the resentment towards Eldritch for walking away from recording. Playing shows gets Eldritch sufficient positive attention for much less effort than making records would. Remember that - despite the smart-ass remark in this thread above - Eldritch did go through drug abuse and mental breakdown making FALAA (and it doesn't sound like Vision Thing or "ToL '92" were very pleasant for him to make, given how long they took).

Let's face it, anyone who has read the Facebook group knows that any new Sisters album would be absolutely hated for a lot of the base for not sounding exactly like one of the classic albums. Playing tours gets Von sufficient positive attention with far less work and far less risk. Like Syd Barrett going home to live with his mum, it makes sense. Eldritch *is* making things - new songs - he's even recording them, it's just that we don't get to hear them.

It occurs to me to mention that AE has said in interviews (and if I recall, in a long article on TSOM website) that you can't make any money out of releasing records anymore.

Playing concerts is making money.

[H. Blackrose]

What surprises me more is that AE has never released an album outside The Sisters... collaborative or solo (which makes me believe that he is still contactually obliged to someone)

Well, it's certainly either that or you know, he just doesn't want to release a record.

Von did release some techno records in the mid-90s under pseudonyms. They sank without trace, confirming that people only wanted to hear from him under the banner of TSOM. He learned his lesson.

[Todashi]

Von did release some techno records in the mid-90s under pseudonyms. They sank without trace, confirming that people only wanted to hear from him under the banner of TSOM. He learned his lesson.

I've read this a few times, but never with any details. Are we sure that actually happened?

I can't believe even bad Von-techno wouldn't have some kind of currency with Sisters fans. Has anyone got links to these tracks?

[Ocean Moves]

Wasn't it around this time that "This Is This" by the MK Ultra appeared on Merciful Release...

https://www.amazon.co.uk/This-Mk-Ultra/dp/B0000080LD

[abridged]

Wasn't it around this time that "This Is This" by the MK Ultra appeared on Merciful Release...

https://www.amazon.co.uk/This-Mk-Ultra/dp/B0000080LD

Slightly off topic but I wonder if there was any involvement of Drug Free America in this given the song-title, Merciful Release and that DFA were from (I think) Leeds and went quite rave/techno after originally being very much guitar based? Were my (second) fav Leeds band back in the day.

[GC]

Von did release some techno records in the mid-90s under pseudonyms. They sank without trace, confirming that people only wanted to hear from him under the banner of TSOM. He learned his lesson.

I've read this a few times, but never with any details. Are we sure that actually happened?

I can't believe even bad Von-techno wouldn't have some kind of currency with Sisters fans. Has anyone got links to these tracks?

I was about to ask that myself. I know of the Die Kupps remix and that he did some live stuff with Utah Saints (once I believe) but was their anything else?

[Dan]

Wasn't it around this time that "This Is This" by the MK Ultra appeared on Merciful Release...

https://www.amazon.co.uk/This-Mk-Ultra/dp/B0000080LD

Slightly off topic but I wonder if there was any involvement of Drug Free America in this given the song-title, Merciful Release and that DFA were from (I think) Leeds and went quite rave/techno after originally being very much guitar based? Were my (second) fav Leeds band back in the day.

A review on that page says it's James Ray who's behind that one. There was also another thing called Paris Riots which got s lot of us intrigued when we thought Eldritch was behind it and it turned out that was James Ray as well.

[H. Blackrose]

There was also another thing called Paris Riots which got s lot of us intrigued when we thought Eldritch was behind it and it turned out that was James Ray as well.

Two musical projects Eldritch set up with his label, Merciful Release, have later been confirmed as Paris Riots (a collaboration with James Ray) and Leeds Underground. Both projects were abandoned before any tracks were released to the public.

[GC]

There was also another thing called Paris Riots which got s lot of us intrigued when we thought Eldritch was behind it and it turned out that was James Ray as well.

Two musical projects Eldritch set up with his label, Merciful Release, have later been confirmed as Paris Riots (a collaboration with James Ray) and Leeds Underground. Both projects were abandoned before any tracks were released to the public.

Abandoned before relase... or blocked because he was still contractually obligated? The plot thickens

[Dan]

There was a Paris Riots promo single selling for a silly amount of money, Someone who had a copy uploaded a 30 sec sample of a song, it was just a few sampled words repeated over & over.

[H. Blackrose]

All right, smart-arse, if Von is still under contract to WEA, explain how the video for "We Are The Same, Suzanne" was released in 2001

[GC]

All right, smart-arse, if Von is still under contract to WEA, explain how the video for "We Are The Same, Suzanne" was released in 2001

I believe it was a promo video, nothing more. I dont think it was ever released as a single or connected to any distributor/label etc. All roads lead to the contract

[H. Blackrose]

That's not how recording contracts work. You can't get around them by simply releasing the material free of charge online. Every music video ends with a copyright statement that it belongs to the record company, which was conspicuously lacking from the Suzanne video. If this theory were true the Paris Riots stuff could also have been released for free online, not to mention every other new TSOM song of the last 30 years.

I wonder what the psychological compulsion is for people to insist that the WEA contract is still valid. As I've said before, it simply violates Occam's Razor - the simpler explanation (Von doesn't want to release anything) is perfectly satisfactory. My theory is it's a combination of resentment and conspiracy theory - people feel good about the idea that they've "seen through Von's lies".

[sultan2075]

That's not how recording contracts work. You can't get around them by simply releasing the material free of charge online. Every music video ends with a copyright statement that it belongs to the record company, which was conspicuously lacking from the Suzanne video. If this theory were true the Paris Riots stuff could also have been released for free online, not to mention every other new TSOM song of the last 30 years.

I wonder what the psychological compulsion is for people to insist that the WEA contract is still valid. As I've said before, it simply violates Occam's Razor - the simpler explanation (Von doesn't want to release anything) is perfectly satisfactory. My theory is it's a combination of resentment and conspiracy theory - people feel good about the idea that they've "seen through Von's lies".

“He can’t give me what I want” is perhaps easier for some than “he won’t give me what I want.”

I’ve considered the contract issue before. At the end of the day it’s all Kremlinology. Those who know ain’t talking.

[Wilkstein]

At this point he’d be crazy to make one.

[GC]

That's not how recording contracts work. You can't get around them by simply releasing the material free of charge online. Every music video ends with a copyright statement that it belongs to the record company, which was conspicuously lacking from the Suzanne video. If this theory were true the Paris Riots stuff could also have been released for free online, not to mention every other new TSOM song of the last 30 years.

I wonder what the psychological compulsion is for people to insist that the WEA contract is still valid. As I've said before, it simply violates Occam's Razor - the simpler explanation (Von doesn't want to release anything) is perfectly satisfactory. My theory is it's a combination of resentment and conspiracy theory - people feel good about the idea that they've "seen through Von's lies".

"Psychological resentment, conscpiracy theories etc".... I think your being a little to serious. I thought we were having a light hearted discussion about whether there was a small possibility that AE may have been lying and there was possibly more at play. I now realise that the "smart arse" comment was nt just humoristic banter. Oh well to each his own.

[Dan]

If this theory were true the Paris Riots stuff could also have been released for free online...

Paris Riots was James Ray - nothing do do with Eldritch except for being on the Merciful Release label... and in 1995 - 2 years before the supposed "contract-busting" SSV.
In the end it was never released.
A promo disc was sold online (eBay?) years later. And it's not online because it's owner paid a lot of money for it and understandably he wants to keep it as his precious. He was kind enough to release a 30-sec excerpt. Some liked it, I didn't.