Ben Gunn

[markfiend]

I thought that the deal for SGWBM was that Eldritch sold the rights to the songs then, in '92 (or whenever), in order to finance the infamous white Mercedes.

I might be wrong though. I occasionally am.

[mh]

Nope, pretty sure you're right on that one.

[Nikolas Vitus Lagartija]

I have also always believed that the infamous Merc was financed by effectively allowing WEA to release the Girls' back catalogue, which did not form part of the original '84 deal but suited both parties : because he had **** all else to offer them, to get them off his back and give him some readies (for said automobile, for example), and WEA as they had a CD certain to sell thousands of copies with no nasty associated recording costs/risk over song quality etc.
I'm guessing that there were no lawyers involved in the band's dealings prior to the WEA deal, and that any monies due to those who played on/contributed in other ways to the pre-WEA MR's would have been a matter to be settled between the remaining member ( ) and the various ex-members, with an out-of-court ex gratia payment the best solution for both parties.
But the key phrase in all of this is "I'm guessing..." and as it's their money it's really none of my business.

[stufarq]

I thought that the deal for SGWBM was that Eldritch sold the rights to the songs then, in '92 (or whenever), in order to finance the infamous white Mercedes.

I might be wrong though. I occasionally am.

That may be true but I remember reading (can't remember where) something where Von described his publishing deal at the time of the WEA contract. He implied (wrongly) that it's how all publishing deals work, saying something along the lines of "when you sign a publishing deal the publisher owns all the rights to the songs but it's the only way you make any real money in this business."

Of course, I could be making all of this up and his ability to get the sound recording (owned by the label) of Never Land removed from a Buffy episode suggests that he may, at some point, have secured ownership of his recordings; so maybe he got his publishing rights back too. And then sold them again. Will he never learn?

[Being645]

I think, I've read that he got that Mercedes from the record company already in 1988 or something - for whatever reason - and he didn't pay for it.
But maybe I was only dreaming ...

Also I think it was a very good idea to release a compilation of the back catalogue
and afterwards a Greatest Hits collection ... in order to prepare fertile grounds for
the coming new album ... only, that didn't happen ... ...

[Mothra]

I think, I've read that he got that Mercedes from the record company already in 1988 or something - for whatever reason - and he didn't pay for it.
But maybe I was only dreaming ...

Also I think it was a very good idea to release a compilation of the back catalogue
and afterwards a Greatest Hits collection ... in order to prepare fertile grounds for
the coming new album ... only, that didn't happen ... ...

Greatest Hits VOLUME ONE I might add

[markfiend]

...his ability to get the sound recording (owned by the label) of Never Land removed from a Buffy episode suggests that he may, at some point, have secured ownership of his recordings; so maybe he got his publishing rights back too. And then sold them again. Will he never learn?

Hm good point. And there's the fabled removal of a song from Judge Dredd...

[lazarus corporation]

...his ability to get the sound recording (owned by the label) of Never Land removed from a Buffy episode suggests that he may, at some point, have secured ownership of his recordings; so maybe he got his publishing rights back too. And then sold them again. Will he never learn?

Hm good point. And there's the fabled removal of a song from Judge Dredd...

Depends on which rights he sold to WEA.

WEA would probably now own the reproduction/distribution rights to all the old Sisters songs (so they can legitimately churn out CD after CD without paying Eldritch any more money), but Eldritch might not have sold them all the rights required to issue a synchronization license to the TV producers (required to use a song in a TV show or film in the US).

[stufarq]

...his ability to get the sound recording (owned by the label) of Never Land removed from a Buffy episode suggests that he may, at some point, have secured ownership of his recordings; so maybe he got his publishing rights back too. And then sold them again. Will he never learn?

Hm good point. And there's the fabled removal of a song from Judge Dredd...

Depends on which rights he sold to WEA.

WEA would probably now own the reproduction/distribution rights to all the old Sisters songs (so they can legitimately churn out CD after CD without paying Eldritch any more money), but Eldritch might not have sold them all the rights required to issue a synchronization license to the TV producers (required to use a song in a TV show or film in the US).

They would own them already. The record company owns the recording copyright because they paid for the recording and they would therefore be the ones issuing synchronisation licences. If it had been a pre-WEA song that would be different but they would almost certainly own Never Land unless he had his own studio and/or bankrolled the recording himself. The fact that the remasters were issued without Von's consent shows that either they still own them or (less likely) they sold them to him at some point and then he sold them back! (I've just contradicted my previous argument, haven't I? The sensible version is that Von never owned the recordings - but then how did he get the song removed from Buffy?)

[GC]

Hm good point. And there's the fabled removal of a song from Judge Dredd...

Depends on which rights he sold to WEA.

WEA would probably now own the reproduction/distribution rights to all the old Sisters songs (so they can legitimately churn out CD after CD without paying Eldritch any more money), but Eldritch might not have sold them all the rights required to issue a synchronization license to the TV producers (required to use a song in a TV show or film in the US).

They would own them already. The record company owns the recording copyright because they paid for the recording and they would therefore be the ones issuing synchronisation licences. If it had been a pre-WEA song that would be different but they would almost certainly own Never Land unless he had his own studio and/or bankrolled the recording himself. The fact that the remasters were issued without Von's consent shows that either they still own them or (less likely) they sold them to him at some point and then he sold them back! (I've just contradicted my previous argument, haven't I? The sensible version is that Von never owned the recordings - but then how did he get the song removed from Buffy?)

Maybe he's trying to sound cool...and lying..

[stufarq]

Depends on which rights he sold to WEA.

WEA would probably now own the reproduction/distribution rights to all the old Sisters songs (so they can legitimately churn out CD after CD without paying Eldritch any more money), but Eldritch might not have sold them all the rights required to issue a synchronization license to the TV producers (required to use a song in a TV show or film in the US).

They would own them already. The record company owns the recording copyright because they paid for the recording and they would therefore be the ones issuing synchronisation licences. If it had been a pre-WEA song that would be different but they would almost certainly own Never Land unless he had his own studio and/or bankrolled the recording himself. The fact that the remasters were issued without Von's consent shows that either they still own them or (less likely) they sold them to him at some point and then he sold them back! (I've just contradicted my previous argument, haven't I? The sensible version is that Von never owned the recordings - but then how did he get the song removed from Buffy?)

Maybe he's trying to sound cool...and lying..

It was definitely in the originally transmitted episode and it's definitely not on the DVD so someone had it removed. It's unlikely that it was used without permission and even less likely that WEA granted permission and then changed their minds. So either Von did manage to exert some influence or - oh God, I've just spotted the blindingly obvious solution! They only ever paid for use on the original transmission and not for DVD rights. Happens all the time cos it's too expensive. You get the song you really want for the broadcast, just so you got to use it once, but then bow to economics and get something cheaper for the DVD release. I should have realised that straight away instead of leading us up a bit of a blind alley. Sorry!

[Being645]

Sounds very plausible, stufarq ... and hell, what an honour to see WEA sell the rights of use for The Sisters' songs so dearly ... ;D ... ...

[Nikolas Vitus Lagartija]

Came across this interesting exchange allegedly about Ben Gunn on this Crystal Palace fans' forum www.holmesdale.net/page.php?id=106&tid=138217&page=7. "Crystal Palace" does sound like a phrase from a m*****n lyric, so not surprising that there's a few goths on there.

[radiojamaica]

How in the world did you find that?
But hey, great stuff!
Ben was a skateboarder, cool.

[Quiff Boy]

wow, good find

fwiw, i asked marx about ben (a few years ago now) and he said he was a quiet john peel-indie kid who loved the intellectual side of guitar playing, and hated the sex, drugs and rock & roll side of the sisters.

i gather he wasn't too comfortable as eldritch immersed himself in the sub-led zep rock & roll lizard king schtick...

it figures that he'd leave in about 83 when the band were getting more and more into that 'mode'.

[eastmidswhizzkid]

he was a quiet john peel-indie kid who loved the intellectual side of guitar playing, and hated the sex, drugs and rock & roll side of the sisters.

some people don't know they're born...

[Bartek]

a contrary my dear, a contrary. there ought to be balance and as we know back in a day TSOM were on full r'n'r life style.

[wrench]

I didn't just join to post this, honest. I've lurked here since forever, been a Sisters fan since I was 14 and saw Temple of Love with Ofra Haza on Top of the Pops in 1992. It was the coolest thing I'd ever seen, and it probably still is.
I played a cover of Alice (didn't we all) in 1996-97 with a long lost Westcountry goth outfit, and I've just taught my eldest to play it.
I was briefly on a Sisters mailing list in about... erm... 2000 ish? but got banned for a chemically fuelled rant. Rightly so. The only thing I remember is the regret. Sorry if you were anywhere near it.
Anyway, apologies if this has been shoved in your beautiful faces before - I looked, a bit, but didn't find it - but here's Ben now:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/benjaminmatthews/
(yes, it really is that simple)
Liverpool Uni, Economics in 1984 - check
TV Production thereafter - check
Was (and still is) a Product Manager at BT - check
His left ear and nose are exactly the same shape - check

[Pista]

Hello @wrench & welcome to

[Nyth Grandbeard]

I didn't just join to post this, honest. I've lurked here since forever, been a Sisters fan since I was 14 and saw Temple of Love with Ofra Haza on Top of the Pops in 1992. It was the coolest thing I'd ever seen, and it probably still is.
I played a cover of Alice (didn't we all) in 1996-97 with a long lost Westcountry goth outfit, and I've just taught my eldest to play it.
I was briefly on a Sisters mailing list in about... erm... 2000 ish? but got banned for a chemically fuelled rant. Rightly so. The only thing I remember is the regret. Sorry if you were anywhere near it.
Anyway, apologies if this has been shoved in your beautiful faces before - I looked, a bit, but didn't find it - but here's Ben now:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/benjaminmatthews/
(yes, it really is that simple)
Liverpool Uni, Economics in 1984 - check
TV Production thereafter - check
Was (and still is) a Product Manager at BT - check
His left ear and nose are exactly the same shape - check

everyone is asking when the next Eldritch album is, but why is no one asking when the next Ben Gunn album is coming out?

jokes aside the guy is looking great, hope he is doing well!

[Quiff Boy]

Randomly stumbled across this reference earlier.

Call me uncultured, but I never realised where the name Ben Gunn came from...

It's the name of a character in Treasure Island, by Robert Louis Stevenson.

https://www.sparknotes.com/lit/treasure/summary/

Landing at the island, Captain Smollett devises a plan to get most of the mutineers off the ship, allowing them leisure time on shore. On a whim, Jim sneaks into the pirates’ boat and goes ashore with them. Frightened of the pirates, Jim runs off alone. From a hiding place, he witnesses Silver’s murder of a sailor who refuses to join the mutiny. Jim flees deeper into the heart of the island, where he encounters a half-crazed man named Ben Gunn. Ben had once served in Flint’s crew but was marooned on the island years earlier.

So there you go.

Turns out maybe Anthony H. Wilson was right when he said "you should read more".

[Pista]

Call me uncultured, but I never realised where the name Ben Gunn came from...

I thought everyone knew.
My dad used to read me Treasure Island when I was knee high to a grasshopper.
It's probably my favourite book.

[alanm]

Call me uncultured, but I never realised where the name Ben Gunn came from...

relevant xkcd https://xkcd.com/1053/