Heartland

Eva wrote:

Ozpat wrote: No experience with heroin or other chemical drugs. In my early days I read the book "Christianne F.....Banhoff zum Zoo". It's about heroin. They call it horse. I knew enough then and sticked to "nederwiet".

Strangely enough when I read the book "Christiane F - Wir Kinder vom Bahnhof Zoo" and saw the film it rather did the opposite. The fact that the characters seemed to live in their own world etc. had quite some appeal for me.

too true. Christiane F. was my role model that time. Beautiful.

canon docre wrote:

Eva wrote:

Ozpat wrote: No experience with heroin or other chemical drugs. In my early days I read the book "Christianne F.....Banhoff zum Zoo". It's about heroin. They call it horse. I knew enough then and sticked to "nederwiet".

Strangely enough when I read the book "Christiane F - Wir Kinder vom Bahnhof Zoo" and saw the film it rather did the opposite. The fact that the characters seemed to live in their own world etc. had quite some appeal for me.

too true. Christiane F. was my role model that time. Beautiful.

Must have been a girl thing then...

Eva wrote: I think all these "shock, horror - look what will happen to you if ..." campaigns don't do much to achieve their goal - see anti-smoking campaigns for a reference and how many smokers it has (or rather: hasn't) got off their addiction/habit.

True!
Then

canon docre wrote:too true. Christiane F. was my role model that time. Beautiful.

which is proving the point I was going to make before I could:
Young people with their tendency to rebel may consider this a welcome negative rolemodel. I know a young guy who was convinced that it was easier to get off heroin than to get off alcohol. According to what he told he didn´t have experience with H, but I fear it`s just a question of time for him.

A colleague of mine from my last job had managed to get rid of the stuff, and we had a long chat about his life before. He just tried it out of boredom and was overwhelmed by the satisfaction of all his needs the stuff provided him with. No hunger, allways feeling loved, warm comfortable. He told me that I, having had quite a few problems in my past, would have been the predestined victim for this drug.
I don`t think so, for I never had to feel well. I can live with being sad or angry or hungry. I think that is what does the trick. I never yet took a pill against headaches. A headache has a reason, and I try to find out what the reason is.
My anthem is Monty Python`s "Allways look on the bright side of life".
The only drug I allow myself to is a band you may know..

P.S.: Okay, tea and beer, the occasional Whiskey every now and then.. happier now?

I think there is evidence that can be interpreted to show that heroin is less addictive than nicotine. Certainly ex-smokers go back to tobacco in a far higher proportion than ex-heroin users go back to heroin once they're clean.

This could obviously be interpreted as an artefact of the difference between how easy cigarettes and heroin are to come by, but it is still an interesting statistic.

He just tried it out of boredom

I think William S. Burroughs put it perfectly when he said “You become a narcotics addict because you do not have strong motivations in any other direction. Junk wins by default.�

markfiend wrote:I think there is evidence that can be interpreted to show that heroin is less addictive than nicotine. Certainly ex-smokers go back to tobacco in a far higher proportion than ex-heroin users go back to heroin once they're clean.

This could obviously be interpreted as an artefact of the difference between how easy cigarettes and heroin are to come by, but it is still an interesting statistic.

Only thing I know from my own experience as an ex exsmoker is how strong an addiction nicotine/ciggies cause. Without providing you with any "benefit" (= high/rush whatever)....

nick the stripper wrote:

He just tried it out of boredom

I think William S. Burroughs put it perfectly when he said “You become a narcotics addict because you do not have strong motivations in any other direction. Junk wins by default.�

This is the sort of person I've met most frequently who use heroin: The wannabe Burroughs who sees some kind of "romance" in heroin. Then six months down the line they're begging, stealing, whoring, anything for their next fix. It's sad really.

See also Pete Doherty.

and Iggy Pop in the 70's

markfiend wrote:

nick the stripper wrote:

He just tried it out of boredom

I think William S. Burroughs put it perfectly when he said “You become a narcotics addict because you do not have strong motivations in any other direction. Junk wins by default.�

This is the sort of person I've met most frequently who use heroin: The wannabe Burroughs who sees some kind of "romance" in heroin. Then six months down the line they're begging, stealing, whoring, anything for their next fix. It's sad really.

See also Pete Doherty.

Wait a minute. How can anyone find William S. Burroughs work romantic? Naked Lunch features children being hung and raped, wild flocks of men running down the streets drooling like intern patients, children letting a narcotic agent who has a setup fix rub against them for heroin. William S. Burroughs is far, far, far from romantic. I’m a huge fan of his work, but if anything, it would put people off heroin, surely?

Pete Doherty and Iggy Pop on the other hand . . .

EDIT: I also can't see how people would find his personal life romantic either, it was quite tragic and, from interviews I've read, he comes off as though he was in a constant state of loneliness and urgency.

Everything in moderation...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/golan/88346665/

nick the stripper wrote:Wait a minute. How can anyone find William S. Burroughs work romantic? Naked Lunch features children being hung and raped, wild flocks of men running down the streets drooling like intern patients, children letting a narcotic agent who has a setup fix rub against them for heroin. William S. Burroughs is far, far, far from romantic. I’m a huge fan of his work, but if anything, it would put people off heroin, surely?

But hey, he was a junkie, and wow like, really creative, man, I want to take heroin and be just like him.

Like that. I know it doesn't make sense.

nick the stripper wrote: EDIT: I also can't see how people would find his personal life romantic either, it was quite tragic and, from interviews I've read, he comes off as though he was in a constant state of loneliness and urgency.

That can also have an appeal as being more true or closer to how people feel themselves. I'd never hold a (famous) person and his/her drug abuse responsible for anybody else starting to abuse drugs, cause in the end everybody is just responsible for their own lives. But I can see how admiring somebody or feeling similar to or wanting to feel close(r) to somebody can make you want to do what he/she does. Or want to experience what he/she experiences. I can't put it into better English words, sorry. I remember two friends of my early days at university. He was on heroin, she fell in love with him, initially dreaming of getting him off the stuff. After some time she started taking H too, cause she wanted to "understand" him. Fortunately after about two years she was strong enough to quit H and leave him, cause she couldn't cope with his addiction. I don't know what became of him though...

markfiend wrote:But hey, he was a junkie, and wow like, really creative, man, I want to take heroin and be just like him.

Like that. I know it doesn't make sense.

Yeah, I can see people thinking in that manner; there are plenty of people out there who don’t think reasonably, after all.

now if only Lee was still around...

Walked into 2 junkies shooting up down a back alley on my way home from work tonight, and the alley is literally a 1 min walk away from the Sheriff Court

James Blast wrote:now if only Lee was still around...

Indeed

What's up with Lee? Has he just retired from HL for "real life" reasons or has anything happened to him?

Eva wrote:What's up with Lee? Has he just retired from HL for "real life" reasons or has anything happened to him?

Real life things Eva , he still pops in now and again, I get the odd TXT and he's coming to Leeds next week

Eva wrote:What's up with Lee? Has he just retired from HL for "real life" reasons or has anything happened to him?

Not to worry, nothing bad has happened to Lee. He just had to get rid of the internet due to financial problems.

He posted recently in the lyrics section though.

Hopefully he'll be back on nightwatch full time someday soon.

Ah, ok. Thanks for the update.

It is an interesting thing though, the stigma still attached to what one can consider to be "hard drugs".. I personally as most of you probably know by now am involved with the techno scene in London, and our prevalent attitude is that whilst we might get totally screwed up on god knows what letters of the alphabet on a Saturday night (or any night of the week for that matter) we are as a whole largely against the use of the likes of crack and smack. This is mainly because these drugs are perhaps the most destructive, selfish substances with the ability to turn a person into a rather horrible thing.

In our house we actually kicked someone out because they were smoking brown and this is from a house of people that you can guarantee at least half of will be spangled at any point of time in the day. The difference is, we don't steal from the people we live with to fund our habits and if we have to go without, we go without, simple as. It's where you reach the point where you can't go without as you would be unable to function without that turns something from being a habit and into an addicition..

Having seen someone close to me die recently because of drugs, its reinforced my attitude that if anything education is the most important thing with regards to this subject. Moral scare tactics, as Mr Ray quite rightly highlights, have the complete opposite effect. They turn drugs into a forbidden fruit, a cool thing that people think the state supresses to stop them from having fun. Yes, drugs can be fun, but the downside can be incredibly dark. It takes a certain strength of character to be able to live a normal life and to leave one's head when one chooses. I manage on that tightrope quite well currently, though even I have Sunday mornings wondering why the hell I did what I did the previous night.. and swear never to touch anything.. until the following weekend arrives and then the circus rolls into town again.

I can't preach against drugs, nor can I preach for them. I accept them for what they are in my life and I know that currently I am tiring of them and will eventually reach a point in life where I no longer have the desire to them, nor the need as such but right now they provide a welcome cushion to the sometimes s**t point in life I've found myself in, not that that's an excuse for taking them, but sometimes if I wasn't able to leave my head and my surroundings I would probably find myself depressed.

So, if you want to do something, then that is your choice, no-one elses, but if you do decide to do something make sure that you are fully informed of its effects and the consequences. You can only blame yourself in forty years time when you're a gibbering wreck in a nursing home, or maybe not, who knows what the long term effects are? That's the downside to prohibition, a serious lack of informed debate and research. Perhaps its time for the powers that be to get off their moral high horse and actually do something that would benefit both users and non users alike.. but hey, it'll be a cold day in hell before a politican actually does something sensible, so until then I choose not to be..