Why can't we do this people?

[Nadia81]

"L-etat, c'est moi" Von is The Sisters and far from lacking pride-I think he has so much pride and so little trust in anyone other than himself -It's his stuff, his treasure,and he's not gonna let anyone muck about with it.

[Ahráyeph]

This isn't new at all. Marillion has released three albums and done one American tour which was entirely funded in advance by their fans. With preorders from 18.000 fans, they made it their m i s s i o n to offer these fans a special CD package every time, with a massive booklet, special packaging and extra music. The world at large may not remember this band anymore aside from their hit single 'Kayleigh', but they're doing quite well, having created their own little cottage industry and their own little universe, in which it seems they can do anything, with the help of their fans.

Yes, it could be a way out of the album stalemate Eldritch seems to want to maintain at all cost, but like several of you, I just don't see him snapping this up...

[Being645]

to be fair, nin probably have more fans, and more geekier fans - their music is inherently techie, and their fans tend ot be younger and have grown up with computers, digital audio & video editing etc

most sisters fans spent too long on the road, necking shed loads of drugs, to care about the ins and outs of adobe premier

whilst there are without doubt a handful of very capable & creative sisters fans out there who could contribute some great material given a chance, i doubt the sisters could crowd-source enough people of sufficient ability to have the same impact as nin fans have managed to have

it works for nin by sheer weight of numbers. the law of averages means that the more people they have, the more chance they have of getting some real quality in there.

Don't know how comes you sound like a record company administrative to me ... ...

I'm very sure the fans here can do this perfectly. Just have a look at the 2006 compilation DVD or the Suikerrock one ...
They are so wonderful that I often wondered why didn't contact their producers and take the chance to make something of it ...

]So if The Sisters are just a hobby to him these days, it must be a hobby that he truly enjoys. Wink
But why he can't be bothered to release anything new when there are so many people around eager and ready to minimize the effort for him as much as possible - this is still a mystery to me. (

Because they're two different things. At the end of the day he's still a musician and probably does genuinely enjoy playing live. He could be quite happy doing that while still having no interest in/a morbid fear of/a pathological hatred of going into the studio and/or releasing and promoting something. Or any of the other thousand and one suggestions we've made in countless other threads for the lack of product.

I agree, though I think the reasons behind are more like some not so very superficial disappointment,
frustration, anger, the necessity to care for one's own well-being and an adorably performed defiant
revenge on life, love, lord and world as such.

Anyway, an assessment of possible reasons seems relatively pointless to me, since we're in 2010 now
and now is now. One could say, at least the world has changed a bit lately, but has it? Sort it out!

[davedecay]

if you want to make money from your fans, you have to sort of, you know... appreciate them.

not spoon-feed them the same sh!te, year after year after year.

[Being645]

If you want to have a kiss from your girl, you gotta, say cherish her ... ...

[_emma_]

I think the reasons behind are more like some not so very superficial disappointment, frustration, anger, the necessity to care for one's own well-being and an adorably performed defiant revenge on life, love, lord and world as such.
Anyway, an assessment of possible reasons seems relatively pointless to me, since we're in 2010 now and now is now. One could say, at least the world has changed a bit lately, but has it? Sort it out!

I would like to have a drink with you if we ever meet before or after a gig.

[Prescott]

I think the reasons behind are more like some not so very superficial disappointment, frustration, anger, the necessity to care for one's own well-being and an adorably performed defiant revenge on life, love, lord and world as such.
Anyway, an assessment of possible reasons seems relatively pointless to me, since we're in 2010 now and now is now. One could say, at least the world has changed a bit lately, but has it? Sort it out!

I would like to have a drink with you if we ever meet before or after a gig.

Things have changed. Even Brian Eno admits the day of the record as something to make any real money on is OVER. It's extremely understandable to me for someone to want their next album to have the same stellar production as say, Floodland. Yet that's absurd, surely not even Steinman himself, even if he wasn't an expensive git, wouldn't be able to pull it off. Then again, Vision Thing's production sounds a bit sterile to me. So it's not the production. That's a lame excuse. It can not be the lack of a good studio, Adam Pearson owns friggin' Pravda fer Chrissakes. It can't be a lack of material, there are at least 11 finished songs that we know of, probably a few more we don't and Far Parade.

If it's a black-balled from the industry thing, then I'm sure it's been long enough for that not to matter as much as it once did. Unless the bitter taste + what he's asking for £/$/€ wise is ridiculous. If it's a ridiculous sum to record execs, and maybe even to us if we knew, then he either believes himself to be steadfast and uncompromising at best, yet inevitably will be and has been seen as stubborn and absurd about the amount he's asking for.

It seems slightly self-destructive, yet maybe the intention was originally Sisters-destructive. Since deciding to tour again the Sisters Devastation was called off. Maybe he thought it would be far easier to find someone who would exploit the Sisters "competently" for a big come back, a d discovered he had miscalculated grievously at the expense of The Sisters.

Imagine the anger, initially pointed at East/West and Warner, maybe some definitely thrown Elektra's way. Perhaps some blame was spread elsewhere. Imagine having to come to terms with the fact that the SSV thing was a blunder?

Yet Brian Eno is correct, the days of records making both musicians and record companies obscene amounts of money are truly over. Recordings will always be an integral means of PROMOTING a band though. The cost of producing a record surely need not be as high as what a Steinman, Rubin or Eno would charge. Have you listened to the production on Ben and Chris' solo stuff? It's pretty damn good. If they can do it somehow, they could do it with Andrew Eldritch too.

So what could it be? Personal reasons? Too personal for any of us to understand? I doubt that as well. I'm sure we would, at least majority, would get it. Yet I can not fathom a good enough reason to not release one single at a time, to promote the band, so that more people attend more shows and buy more swag.

[Nadia81]

Maybe Von doesn't want more.Maybe what he's got right now is enough for him. I think Von is all nice and comfy right where he is.He doesn't have anything to prove to anybody-he's "been there,done that"-why should he bust his ass to release music all of us already have? (sorry-devils advocate)

[Prescott]

Maybe Von doesn't want more.Maybe what he's got right now is enough for him. I think Von is all nice and comfy right where he is.He doesn't have anything to prove to anybody-he's "been there,done that"-why should he bust his ass to release music all of us already have? (sorry-devils advocate)

There's no need to be a sorry devil's advocate, even if that was a sorry attempt at playing one on his behalf.

[Being645]

... seems to be a fact that none of us here can't but, time and again ...

[Being645]

I would like to have a drink with you if we ever meet before or after a gig.

... I enjoy your comments here regularly as well, so a short look at various realities might be fun ... ...

[jost 7]

i also think that the sisters simly don't wat to go the full trail, which has to be taken these days. it is important to offer all kinds of media (new records, live-dvd, interviews) which the sisters don't want to offer. there might be many reasons for this, up to not being comfortable with the material. another thing is that nothing happens - some "old new" tracks are still basic as when played live 10 years ago. thats not a sign of live.

considering all aspects of current business-rules playing gigs every now and then might be the best thing to do with the material available, and andrew is not a young man anymore by all accounts.

i still see lots of possibilities which would fit perfectly for the sisters, but having good times at the gigs, in here and listening to dodgy recordings from time to time might be the case basically. although hope dies at last.

[Prescott]

jost 7:

I understand the basic points you are making, and agree with them in a certain reticent, accepting sort of way. Yet that's all. As far as his age, that's really not a valid excuse. I'm sure you can think of many older performers that not only do the difficult work that is seldom appreciated when it comes to touring, they also record and release records.

Lemmy, Cohen, Bowie,etc.

There are obviously no set rules. Sure if a band releases an official DVD/Blu-ray, many more fans might wonder, "Why no CD?" or "Why no vinyl?", etc. Yet that's still no reason not to do it.

The best example is The March Violets, they had their one-off reunion gig, and came fully prepared with a free promo CD of new studio stuff.

Let's say he only wants to tour four more times max, a three song E.P given away or sold, depending on the legality of it, at each tour, would have us all very happy. Even if it meant waiting an average of 18 months between tours/new releases.

That would be 12 songs released over time, you know, to stretch it out and have us waiting as long as possible to "collect" all the studio recordings.

But there wouldn't be any punishment or cruelty or callousness in that, so maybe you're right.

[Being645]

Your calculations and bombardements are really a pleasure to read, Prescott ... ...

BTW, is there some artwork to TBOT's Inter Alia, apart from that for Far Parade and Romeo Down?

[Prescott]

Being645: Thank you. As far as artwork, when we re-release "iNTER ALiA" through our site, for free, it will include artwork, lyrics and a few more songs, like this one:

BAD THiNGS

your crap is smeared along the wall wall wall wall wall
see the goth kids stoop, that once stood tall tall tall tall tall
we see the fan-base crumble, see the ticket sales fall
but you care no more and you don't recall

'cus you see
nothing but the bad things
'cus we hear
nothing but the bad things
'cus i see
nothing but the bad things
nothing but the bad bad bad bad bad bad
nothing but the bad things

you've ventured nothing so nothing's lost
we count the changes, you count the cost
a resurrection so uncertain
keep your excuses drop the curtain

'cus out there the Brothers work the ridges
while you're selling bombs and burning bridges
out there on an empty stage
your fans are gone 'cus you're disengaged

but in here

nothing but the bad things
in here
nothing but the bad things
in here
nothing but the bad things
nothing but the bad bad bad bad bad bad bad
nothing but the bad things

we see an empty face and bankrupt band band band band band
nothing new here to understand
your always on the fence, it's so sad
well you take no chances and you take no stand
you're against the wall
up on the wire
ready for a fall
and under fire
against the sale
a cover band for hire
they think the profit's high
but we know the cost is higher

still we see
nothing but the bad things
still you see
nothing but the bad things
still we see, hear, speak, do, talk, see

nothing but the bad things
nothing but the bad bad bad bad bad bad
nothing but the bad things
nothing but the bad things
nothing but the bad bad bad bad things

All Lyrics Copyright © 2010 The Brothers Of Tyranny

[Being645]

... I really adore your enthusiasm .... and I see, sometimes it's really hard to feed the animal ... ...

[Prescott]

Here's an interesting study of Live Concert Revenues VS. Recording Revenues in the day and age of file-sharing:

http://labs.timesonline.co.uk/blog/2009 ... e-sharing/

Plenty of good responses as well, after the article.

[Being645]

Interesting article ... another fact they missed in their calucaltion is the
revenues artists obtain by selling their products themselves over the
internet without any record company involved ...

so for the future of record companies ... they will have to offer their services to artists and not the other way round as has been ...

[Bartek]

i want to heard this song. and i mean it.

[Prescott]

A demo version of BAD THiNGS is now available on our site, it may or may not be taken down at any time if we need to check our mail. Or if Leviticus ever gets around to doing some proper guitars for it. It has as much to do with the words "demotic and democles" as it does "Weird Al and Barmy Bastard Groovy".

Enjoy, but try to have a sense of humor, seriously.

[il duce]

Trent actually cares.
And Von could not give a f**k.

There you have it. As sad as it is.

[il duce]

I am really bitter tonight so please excuse me, but still...

If you care so much about the quality of a album and the sound and all that, how come you can then stand on a stage every night with crap sound doing short seen-better-days versions of your songs, your creations?

I means he spent three months on the guitarsound for Vision Thing and what, 5-6 minutes on soundcheck for the last tour?
When fog, and god do I love the the fog, is more important then the quality of the sound and arrangement live, then I give up.

So there it is, I give up. I will not see them again until something happens. I am sick of the same setlist, the lack of news, the lack of caring.

[Being645]

A demo version of BAD THiNGS is now available on our site, it may or may not be taken down at any time if we need to check our mail. Or if Leviticus ever gets around to doing some proper guitars for it. It has as much to do with the words "demotic and democles" as it does "Weird Al and Barmy Bastard Groovy".

Enjoy, but try to have a sense of humor, seriously.

This is very kind of you ... and as to cutting the edge of humour,

some might think it appropriate to add a Thanks for fun ... ... ...

... ... never agreed to that, but anyway, we're in 2010 and the world has changed a bit.

[Bartek]

I am really bitter tonight so please excuse me, but still...

If you care so much about the quality of a album and the sound and all that, how come you can then stand on a stage every night with crap sound doing short seen-better-days versions of your songs, your creations?

I means he spent three months on the guitarsound for Vision Thing and what, 5-6 minutes on soundcheck for the last tour?
When fog, and god do I love the the fog, is more important then the quality of the sound and arrangement live, then I give up.

So there it is, I give up. I will not see them again until something happens. I am sick of the same setlist, the lack of news, the lack of caring.

nothing to add nothing to odd.

[stufarq]

Here's an interesting study of Live Concert Revenues VS. Recording Revenues in the day and age of file-sharing:

http://labs.timesonline.co.uk/blog/2009 ... e-sharing/

Plenty of good responses as well, after the article.

Lies, damn lies and statistics...