Heartland

I was not confusing sarcasm with irony. I was saying that they are different.

Wikipedia defines irony as - a sharp incongruity or discordance that goes beyond the simple and evident intentions of words or actions.
Ironic statements typically imply a meaning in opposition to their literal meaning.

Their is of course a whole lot more. But it is in Wikipedia so it must be be true.

Talking irony, I think one obvious fact can be pointed out, i.e. that Von/TSOM are not beyond doing covers - or adaptations/reinterpretations if you will - of songs by other bands, but he snubs at people who attempt to cover any TSOM song. At least in public. Don't know how Grandaddy ever managed to get permission to cover 'This Corrosion'. That consent must've been one hell of an ironic statement.

That said : the original 'Emma' was as dark and looming as you could get for the 70's and it surprised me Hot Chocolate got away with it. Very far from cheerful tunes like 'You Sexy Thing'. And the TSOM cover still gives me the chills from the first cymbal hit onwards, because it's just times ten what the original was. How much bleaker can you get than this? In my estimation, not much, unless you commit suicide yourself...

Huh, Grandaddy? I must have missed something.

This is a bit OT but I think there are quite some gems in 70s black music, for example, just how dark are the lyrics to "Papa was a rolling stone"? Or, one of the saddest tunes I have ever heard is Funkadelic's piece "Maggot Brain" with Eddie Hazel on guitar. I like how that stuff is dark, but kinda sublime, not in an in-your-face way.

OT end

You know the guitars on the albums you liked?

Those were ironic as well...

Sita wrote:This is a bit OT but I think there are quite some gems in 70s black music, for example, just how dark are the lyrics to "Papa was a rolling stone"?

definitely

Sita wrote:Or, one of the saddest tunes I have ever heard is Funkadelic's piece "Maggot Brain" with Eddie Hazel on guitar. I like how that stuff is dark, but kinda sublime, not in an in-your-face way.

me too

good choices

Quiff Boy wrote:

Sita wrote:This is a bit OT but I think there are quite some gems in 70s black music, for example, just how dark are the lyrics to "Papa was a rolling stone"?

definitely

Sita wrote:Or, one of the saddest tunes I have ever heard is Funkadelic's piece "Maggot Brain" with Eddie Hazel on guitar. I like how that stuff is dark, but kinda sublime, not in an in-your-face way.

me too

good choices

Ah it's hard to beat Boney M's (He was a) Steppenwolf. Fab song about a prostitute on a suicide kick done to a very groovy disco beat. Genius!

I guess the irony of the guitars has to do with the fact that pretending to be a hardass while prancing about on stage like a little girl to the sound of some un-musical "heavy" guitar riff is rather silly, and with the smirking recognition of this fact, which makes it possible to take the whole thing really over the top. Which, in turn, creates the perfect medium for depicting the absurd, like the mental landscape of Vision Thing's nutcase politician.

million voices wrote: Their is of course a whole lot more. But it is in Wikipedia so it must be be true.

Cutting and ironic. Nice!!

centurionofprix wrote:I guess the irony of the guitars has to do with the fact that pretending to be a hardass while prancing about on stage like a little girl to the sound of some un-musical "heavy" guitar riff is rather silly, and with the smirking recognition of this fact, which makes it possible to take the whole thing really over the top. Which, in turn, creates the perfect medium for depicting the absurd, like the mental landscape of Vision Thing's nutcase politician.

hihi, hihi ...

million voices wrote:I was not confusing sarcasm with irony. I was saying that they are different.

My apologies but it was because you said that Bender's definition would also cover "sarcastic", which isn't the case. While sarcasm can involve irony, it doesn't have to.

paint it black wrote:

million voices wrote: Their is of course a whole lot more. But it is in Wikipedia so it must be be true.

Cutting and ironic. Nice!!

And therefore sarcastic. But that's sarcasm with irony. "But it's in Wikipedia so it's probably crap" would be equally sarcastic but neither as funny nor as elegant.

oh fuckin' relax

correct. i was being ironically sarcastic

their there