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Posted: 03 Jan 2005, 23:50
by Quiff Boy
Dark wrote:CellThree wrote:Dark wrote:Quite frankly I think it was stupid of Von to complain about the Mish using the name Sisterhood.
Losing the 25,000 pound advance for the next Sisters album was stupid?
http://www.thesistersofmercy.com/gen/regift.htm
Wasn't the advance to the first band using the name Sisterhood?
Well, if Von hadn't bothered, would there still have been competition to release a Sisterhood album quickly, and receive an advance? Note that this
is a question, as I don't know the basics behind musical politics.
Anyway, the Mish should have just had the money, so they could release some songs whilst people waited for This Corrosion and Floodland to appear.
Anyway, big fuc
king deal if Von hadn't gotten another 25k, it's not helped his personality any one way or the other.
the sisterhood thing was a matter of pride.
the story goes that wayne & co originally tried using the name the sisters of mercy (and played a cgig or two under the name).
when eldritch, being a founder member of said band, asked wayne & co to cease using the name as he was planning to continue recording under the moniker (and naturally had more right to use it), they tried calling themselves the sisterhood, which had previously been the nickname of the sisters' travelling army of fans.
it was also a transparent ploy to cash in on the sisters' reputation, and coming on the back of them having already tried to steal the real name, i guess eldritch just got a bit pi$$ed off with them.
i would also guess that as eldritch didnt see their material as being worthy of the moniker (he'd already refused to it for the sisters) i see it perfectly natural that he would therefore also seek to prevent them using any possible adaptation of the sisters name for what he saw as sub-standard material.
and lets face it, he's also a bitter man who knows how to bare a grudge. trying to steal the name in the first place was always going to get his back up, and once the hackles are raised, "pitty the fool" as mr t. would say
Posted: 04 Jan 2005, 08:38
by Black Biscuit
Perhaps 'Gift' was the equivalent of a solo album, an opportunity for Eldo to display another side to his music. (I remember being suprised by its difference to Sisters stuff.)
Rain From Heaven was the killer track. I like the way it makes people wonder what the hell is going on. Colours and Finland are good in that way, too.
The Floodland version of Colours only proves that Eldo indeed can't sing.
Giving Ground is way too earnest. Like seriously. Jihad doesn't quite do it for me, either. Neither do quotes from Rozz Williams, incidentally.
I had a cassette with the Gift album on it, directly followed by the song 'Order Of Death' by P.I.L. They seemed to go together nicely. But perhaps the synths on OOD were a little more ominous than Eldo's ever were.
I was in a pub a few nights ago and was introduced to a guy I've seen around town for years. He used to go out with a mega-gothic hottie, who was perhaps more memorable than him, bless his heart. I asked about her and found out she dumped him to stay in Hollywood, where she ended up with her round-the-world plane ticket. That, according to him, was eight years ago. Apparently she now manages Panpipes, the occult store part-owned by actress Fairuza Balk.
Posted: 04 Jan 2005, 13:35
by Dark
Black Biscuit wrote:Perhaps 'Gift' was the equivalent of a solo album, an opportunity for Eldo to display another side to his music. (I remember being suprised by its difference to Sisters stuff.)
Rain From Heaven was the killer track. I like the way it makes people wonder what the hell is going on. Colours and Finland are good in that way, too.
The Floodland version of Colours only proves that Eldo indeed can't sing.
Giving Ground is way too earnest. Like seriously. Jihad doesn't quite do it for me, either. Neither do quotes from Rozz Williams, incidentally.
Yeah, Rain From Heaven is possibly the best track. Mabye also because it's the shortest. And Colours, you're right, I don't listen to it on Floodland, James Ray sung it better.
Quiff Boy wrote:the sisterhood thing was a matter of pride.
the story goes that wayne & co originally tried using the name the sisters of mercy (and played a cgig or two under the name).
when eldritch, being a founder member of said band, asked wayne & co to cease using the name as he was planning to continue recording under the moniker (and naturally had more right to use it), they tried calling themselves the sisterhood, which had previously been the nickname of the sisters' travelling army of fans.
it was also a transparent ploy to cash in on the sisters' reputation, and coming on the back of them having already tried to steal the real name, i guess eldritch just got a bit pi$$ed off with them.
i would also guess that as eldritch didnt see their material as being worthy of the moniker (he'd already refused to it for the sisters) i see it perfectly natural that he would therefore also seek to prevent them using any possible adaptation of the sisters name for what he saw as sub-standard material.
and lets face it, he's also a bitter man who knows how to bare a grudge. trying to steal the name in the first place was always going to get his back up, and once the hackles are raised, "pitty the fool" as mr t. would say
I understand why he'd have had trouble with them being "The Sisters" or "The Sisters Of Mercy", but as for cashing in on their success, Craig Adams had been there since Body Electric, and Wayne joined after the indie stuff had gone, thus making FALAA and the 3 singles preceding it. They were responsible for a lot of the success.
Posted: 05 Jan 2005, 00:42
by Karst
Dark wrote:Wasn't the advance to the first band using the name Sisterhood?
No. It was an advance publishing deal and it would go to the one who would get a record out on WEA first. All hypothetical as the record comapny wasn't interested in in releasing Wayne & Craig's stuff. Their manager knicked the master tapes and released the first two singles through an indie label.
Dark wrote:Well, if Von hadn't bothered, would there still have been competition to release a Sisterhood album quickly, and receive an advance?
Not really, if Wayne and Craig had released a record under that name they would have been in seriously legal trouble. They didn't. They only toured under that name as a support slot to the Cult. And it gave them some fantastic publicity. They initially toured the UK under the Sisterhood name where The M!ss!on was unveiled - although Eldritch had their Leeds gig cancelled.
Dark wrote:Anyway, the Mish should have just had the money, so they could release some songs whilst people waited for This Corrosion and Floodland to appear.
They did get a £1 million 7 album deal with Phonogram. And the indie releases did give them a nice head start.
Dark wrote:Anyway, big fucking deal if Von hadn't gotten another 25k, it's not helped his personality any one way or the other.
I really think that it didn't do him many favours in the end. He was stuck with the publishing deal and the whole WEA contract. It only became a headache in the mid-nineties.
Posted: 05 Jan 2005, 00:48
by Karst
Quiff Boy wrote:the story goes that wayne & co originally tried using the name the sisters of mercy (and played a cgig or two under the name).
Not heard that one before. Think the ieda was always to use the Sisterhood. I mean, they didn't play any tSoM songs, despite the heckles. They were occasionally billed as ex-Sisters of Mercy. And while there was the publicity concerning the name, I think part of it was trying to get back at Eldritch. Their contracts had been appalling apparently so there might have been some resentment on Adams/Hussey's part.
Posted: 05 Jan 2005, 01:45
by Quiff Boy
Karst wrote:Quiff Boy wrote:the story goes that wayne & co originally tried using the name the sisters of mercy (and played a cgig or two under the name).
Not heard that one before. Think the ieda was always to use the Sisterhood. I mean, they didn't play any tSoM songs, despite the heckles. They were occasionally billed as ex-Sisters of Mercy. And while there was the publicity concerning the name, I think part of it was trying to get back at Eldritch. Their contracts had been appalling apparently so there might have been some resentment on Adams/Hussey's part.
i'm sure i read that they had at least tried to tour under that name, but that yer meb eldo had gotten wind pretty quickly and put a stop to it....
i could well be mistaken though
Posted: 05 Jan 2005, 13:36
by nigel d
i have floodland on cassette and vinyl and didnt get colours (cd only), seems like i didnt miss much
Posted: 05 Jan 2005, 19:16
by Marc
nigel d wrote:i have floodland on cassette and vinyl and didnt get colours (cd only), seems like i didnt miss much
Indeed, you don't miss a thing.Version on Gift is better.
I Incidentally change my Rozz Williams quote in another Rozz Williams quote (hope you like this one more BB)
Posted: 05 Jan 2005, 19:48
by Silence is platinum
Marc wrote:nigel d wrote:i have floodland on cassette and vinyl and didnt get colours (cd only), seems like i didnt miss much
Indeed, you don't miss a thing.Version on Gift is better.
I Incidentally change my Rozz Williams quote in another Rozz Williams quote (hope you like this one more BB)
I remember a quote from R W just before he passed away
"i want people to remember me the way they remember Bowie or Reed,
not as something as the sisters of mercy.." or something like that,
didn t like the poor bastard anyway
Posted: 06 Jan 2005, 14:39
by Marc
"Gift" from "the Sisterhood" "was" available as:
LP Merciful Release SIS 020 June 1986
CD Merciful Release SIS 020 1990
CS Merciful Release ??
http://www.mixi.net/Sisters.Of.Mercy/Re ... .Page.html
"Gift" was also available on MC, but knows somebody wich the number is? (marked with the ?? here above).Is this a "RARE" item and is there a different between the MC,CD and LP version?
Posted: 06 Jan 2005, 15:08
by markfiend
I don't think the vinyl and CD versions are different. I don't think Eldritch would bother for what, when it comes down to it, he only ever really regarded as a "spoiler".
Having said that, I only have the vinyl so I could be wrong
Posted: 06 Jan 2005, 15:47
by Planet Dave
I've said it before and I'll say it again, 'Gift' is
the album to get pleasantly bollxed to. Agreed with Doomy and the others, a techno with tunes masterpiece.
SSV on the the other hand...
Posted: 06 Jan 2005, 16:00
by markfiend
*nods* That seems to be the general consensus
Posted: 06 Jan 2005, 17:21
by Scardwel
Marc wrote:"Gift" was also available on MC, but knows somebody wich the number is? (marked with the ?? here above).Is this a "RARE" item and is there a different between the MC,CD and LP version?
I have the cassette of Gift. The number is the same as on the CD and l.p.
I've never considered Gift a proper fully-realised album - there are only 5 tracks for a start, of which only 3 are proper 'songs'. Rain From Heaven and Giving Ground are great, Colours is good (I prefer this version to the one on Floodland), Jihad is o.k.but it's just an instrumental with a bit of chanting. Finland Red is a pile of poo though!
It's a good "e.p." but certainly not a classic album IMHO.
Posted: 06 Jan 2005, 17:35
by Red_Kola
Colours:
Marc wrote:
Indeed, you don't miss a thing.Version on Gift is better.
Well, you miss it being sung by Eldritch, actually.
And the lyric is slightly different (see threads
passim) The Gift version does not say "Marching Men"...
Posted: 22 Jan 2005, 11:53
by Quibble Kinng
Gift was the second AE compostion that I bought (after FLA) and I remember being dumbstruck by the total change in direction - Perhaps if they'd been mad enough at the time, The Sisterhood could have kept on as they were developing a kinda darkling/dance groove (imagine a rave re-mix of Lucretia!)
Personal fave = Finland Red, Egypt White... why spend weeks writing new lyrics when you can just open up Guns & Ammo! Just waiting for the m*****n to call a song Black & Red Stripes with lyrics lifted from Dennis The Menace.
SSV - instant rip-off, go figure! Perhaps just what the record company deserved but the fans really didn't need to hear.
Call me after the next concert...
Posted: 22 Jan 2005, 12:13
by Dark
Quibble Kinng wrote:Gift was the second AE compostion that I bought (after FLA) and I remember being dumbstruck by the total change in direction - Perhaps if they'd been mad enough at the time, The Sisterhood could have kept on as they were developing a kinda darkling/dance groove (imagine a rave re-mix of Lucretia!)
Personal fave = Finland Red, Egypt White... why spend weeks writing new lyrics when you can just open up Guns & Ammo! Just waiting for the m*****n to call a song Black & Red Stripes with lyrics lifted from Dennis The Menace.
SSV - instant rip-off, go figure! Perhaps just what the record company deserved but the fans really didn't need to hear.
Call me after the next concert...
Finland is a good song, but you can't dance to it like you can to Jihad.
SSV would be a ripoff if they charged you any more than a few quid. I mean, as far as techno goes, it's not that bad.
Anyone think I should remix a song from SSV/Gift? Highschool, Jihad, etc.. won't go as wrong as I did with "Flood IV".
Posted: 22 Jan 2005, 12:25
by Marc
Red_Kola wrote:Colours:
Marc wrote:
Indeed, you don't miss a thing.Version on Gift is better.
Well, you miss it being sung by Eldritch, actually.
And the lyric is slightly different (see threads
passim) The Gift version does not say "Marching Men"...
Gift version does say "marching man"!
I love vary in music, TSOM & the Sisterhood, but also SSV (not every day)
Posted: 22 Jan 2005, 21:12
by nick the stripper
ive only heard giving ground and colours both really good songs. where can i get a copy of gift?ive been wanting a copy for ages.
Posted: 22 Jan 2005, 21:20
by Marc
nick the stripper wrote:ive only heard giving ground and colours both really good songs. where can i get a copy of gift?ive been wanting a copy for ages.
http://cgi.ebay.nl/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie ... eName=WD2V
http://cgi.ebay.nl/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie ... eName=WD2V
Giving Ground 7" mp3's:
http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/sistersrarities41email
Posted: 22 Jan 2005, 21:51
by Dark
Marc wrote:Red_Kola wrote:Colours:
Marc wrote:
Indeed, you don't miss a thing.Version on Gift is better.
Well, you miss it being sung by Eldritch, actually.
And the lyric is slightly different (see threads
passim) The Gift version does not say "Marching Men"...
Gift version does say "marching man"!
I love vary in music, TSOM & the Sisterhood, but also SSV (not every day)
Hmm.. the first verse seems to say "marching man" but "marching men" afterwards. I dunno, James Ray probably doesn't sing clearly enough.
I listen to the Sisters practically every day. Sisterhood most days, and SSV just as much.
You can do it in the 25 stupid, When you've paid...
Interestingly enough, the bus I used to get was the 25. Until it was cancelled. Maybe we shouldn't have done them in the bus by night...
Posted: 23 Jan 2005, 00:23
by James Blast
Dark wrote:I love vary in music, TSOM & the Sisterhood, but also SSV (not every day)
not a good idea, try some Roxy Music, early Genesis, Future Sound Of London, PWEI, Loop and Ride for starters with a sprinkling of Curve to garnish.
Posted: 23 Jan 2005, 00:29
by Marc
James Blast wrote:Dark wrote:I love vary in music, TSOM & the Sisterhood, but also SSV (not every day)
not a good idea, try some Roxy Music, early Genesis, Future Sound Of London, PWEI, Loop and Ride for starters with a sprinkling of Curve to garnish.
TRY "CHRISTIAN DEATH"
Posted: 23 Jan 2005, 00:37
by James Blast
Marc wrote:TRY "CHRISTIAN DEATH"
I think not
Posted: 24 Jan 2005, 01:43
by Red_Kola
Marc wrote:Gift version does say "marching man"!
Oh for fucks sake
I guess I'm gonna have to make some wee MP3s, and that's a right pain as I only have Gift on casette.
Nonetheless, this will have to be done...
(BTW - has there always been a dinosaur lurking in the background of your avatar?
)