Heartland

Never should we forget

Also remember the millions of victims in Afghanistan, Libya, Vietnam and Iraq.

RIP all...

IZ.

Garbageman wrote:Never should we forget

We don't have much chance.....

Izzy HaveMercy wrote:Also remember the millions of victims in Afghanistan, Libya, Vietnam and Iraq.

RIP all...

IZ.

Absolutely.

As a 'slight' aside, did that 2.3 trillion dollars the pentagon announced as 'unaccounted for' and 'missing' on Sept 10 2001 ever show up?

Gollum's Cock wrote:

Garbageman wrote:Never should we forget

We don't have much chance.....

My thoughts exactly. It's like a new Chili Peppers single. Milked out and rammed down your throat until you get enough of it.

IZ.

Enough for pathos.
R.I.P. to all who died in this attack. I know two men who was really close WTC when things get started, luckily they survived.
R.I.P. to 230K people who died after 9/11 as a result of ongoing wars and terror attacks.

Never should we forget... but also should we learn

Unfortunately we easily forget and we don't actually learn

Historia magistra vitae est, but not for people in charge.

It should have been a huge lesson but maybe I am a pessimist.

Garbageman wrote:It should have been a huge lesson but maybe I am a pessimist.

More of a realist, IMO.

IZ.

I wonder what would have happened had W not been appointed president. Would Gore in the White House have handled things differently from Shrub?

That's a question to those who lives in paraler universe Earth where peole are smarter or where 9/11 simply didn't hapen.

markfiend wrote:I wonder what would have happened had W not been appointed president. Would Gore in the White House have handled things differently from Shrub?

I have to say, in hindsight, that this is certainly not a question that kept ME busy. Then again, foreign politics is not my forte, I only consider results of good or bad politics, the 'what if's are for those that care about such things...

IZ.

markfiend wrote:I wonder what would have happened had W not been appointed president. Would Gore in the White House have handled things differently from Shrub?

No. I don't think so. There was broad agreement about Afghanistan on the left and the right, and the Democrats were supporters of the war in Iraq until it became politically expedient to oppose it ("regime change" in Iraq was Clinton/Gore policy as well, and for the same reasons. The strategic calculus regarding the use of force changed after 9/11). Among Democratic legislators, Dennis "Frodo Baggins" Kucinich is the major exception to this. He's a principled man. Usually wrong, mind you, but respectably and consistently so.

Nor has Obama handled these things terribly different from W.

I would like to state that I am no expert in these matters and that hindsight is a wonderful thing

But..

Wouldn't it have made more sense to have supported local opponents of the bad guys with dosh and weapons rather than go barging in to another unwinnable war

Some chap mentioned earlier about not forgetting - Vietnam seems to have slipped out of the memory banks rather quickly

million voices wrote: Wouldn't it have made more sense to have supported local opponents of the bad guys with dosh and weapons rather than go barging in to another unwinnable war

You mean like they did when the Commies were the bad guys?

Jeremiah wrote:

million voices wrote: Wouldn't it have made more sense to have supported local opponents of the bad guys with dosh and weapons rather than go barging in to another unwinnable war

You mean like they did when the Commies were the bad guys?

Yes

sultan2075 wrote:

markfiend wrote:I wonder what would have happened had W not been appointed president. Would Gore in the White House have handled things differently from Shrub?

No. I don't think so. There was broad agreement about Afghanistan on the left and the right, and the Democrats were supporters of the war in Iraq until it became politically expedient to oppose it ("regime change" in Iraq was Clinton/Gore policy as well, and for the same reasons. The strategic calculus regarding the use of force changed after 9/11). Among Democratic legislators, Dennis "Frodo Baggins" Kucinich is the major exception to this. He's a principled man. Usually wrong, mind you, but respectably and consistently so.

Nor has Obama handled these things terribly different from W.

Yeah, that's pretty much what I think too. Maybe Carter would have handled it differently, but no president since...

Zeitgeist

million voices wrote:

Jeremiah wrote:

million voices wrote: Wouldn't it have made more sense to have supported local opponents of the bad guys with dosh and weapons rather than go barging in to another unwinnable war

You mean like they did when the Commies were the bad guys?

Yes

So that in another 15 years' time, when the guys they gave the weapons to are the new bad guys, we can play the game again?

I am terribly sorry for the victims and their friends and families. It was a disgusting crime.
But... only a week or 10 days later, seeing Mick Jagger wave a USA flag and shake his skinny old arse was just the beginning of things getting ugly and the USA losing a lot of sympathies. Things went terribly wrong since (saying this is a bit silly - as if things went better before) - and looking at Lybia and Syria, no one has learned anything. It's sad really. I would feel much better if we at least were honest about it and admit it's simply power politics. It's the hypocrisy that makes me feel tired about the human race.

just leave the politics aside, just for a few, and pay respects? things don't need analyzing 24/7. sometimes, heart is needed, not head.

emilystrange wrote:just leave the politics aside, just for a few, and pay respects? things don't need analyzing 24/7. sometimes, heart is needed, not head.

some really sick heads are responsible for this tragedy

that's not in dispute! i just don't why, every single time an event is mentioned, that people HAVE to analyze and politicise and dispute. every now and again, it'd be nice if people just bowed their heads and paid respects.

How do you know everyone is not paying respect? For example, I was on a memorial event in the America House in my town on sunday evening. But this is not the guest book of the American embassy, it's a british-based music website, you tend to be "brainy" when you type, etc.