are the other members of the band holding Eldritch back?

claws · 09 Sep 2003, 07:20

I came up with an interesting thought... We all know what happened in 1985, the break up of the original TSOM. After this, Eldritch himself (almost) makes the greatest album of all times, the total masterpiece "Floodland" in 1987. This turned out to never be repeated again. Since Eldritch is such an arrogant, egoistic & demanding person, who never listens to anyone, isn't it best if he worked alone with his music? So I say: Dump Pearson & Co (who needs guitars?), hire Jim Steinman again, take Dr. Avalanche into the studio and make a new classic album now!!

Padstar · 09 Sep 2003, 09:09

There was a rumour that allegedly Eldritch was closer to the smaller record deal or net release, but that Adam (As co-writer on a lot of the newer stuff) was not prepared to accept anything other than a major deal. If that is so you could swim in the irony!

@ Claws..... not a bad idea, ide be happy enough for an Eldritch only release as i loved Floodland. Steinman a go go !!

Paddy.

MrChris · 09 Sep 2003, 11:26

Floodland is also my all-time favourite record, so I could more than live with this too. Eldritch obviously thinks his main talents are as a lyricist, and would rather delegate musical responsibilities - maybe so, but he's also written the music to nearly all of my fave Sisters songs! If we can believe the gossip - which we can't be sure about - I would agree with Claws about Adam. But I still have more hope with Chris. He just seems like much more of a decent bloke.

Black Shuck · 09 Sep 2003, 11:29

I agree 100%.

I love the Sisters, but 'Floodland' is the only good album they've ever done.

'good' as in a complete, satisfying long-player, with no filler and no lyrics that make me cringe when I hear them (very few albums I've heard have managed this!)

so yeah. When playing live, you obviously need a couple of guitarists, but as far as making records goes, the Sisters can only really function well when it's Von's personal baby.
Kinda like NIN.

09 Sep 2003, 11:35

duuno.

i take all your points on board, and happen agree with most of them, but i do think everyone needs a little "quality control" as they say...

look at the self-indulgent unlistenable s**t mr reznor has turned out when left to his own devices? and he's not alone. too long spent on your own churniing out music, without the input of others, can be dangerous

and i like adam - i think he looks and pouts a damn site more like a rock star than anyone else (apart from von) thats ever been in the sisters

MrChris · 09 Sep 2003, 11:39

Hmmm, I more or less agree with that too. My only concern is that it is nice to see them live, and the kind of sound that Von is likely to lay down in a studio on his own is not necessarily the kind of sound that is likely to transfer well into a live situation, especially if you're just hiring a bunch of musicians to play them who didn't have any role in recording them. Let's face it, the Floodland songs have never sounded brilliant live, partly for that reason. Whereas the FALAA songs always worked really well live, because there wasn't such a gap between the way they were recorded, and the way they were played. So I agree 100% that my ideal RECORD would be a Von solo piece, but in terms of the live experience, collaborative pieces seem to work much better.

09 Sep 2003, 11:43

MrChris wrote:Hmmm, I more or less agree with that too. My only concern is that it is nice to see them live, and the kind of sound that Von is likely to lay down in a studio on his own is not necessarily the kind of sound that is likely to transfer well into a live situation, especially if you're just hiring a bunch of musicians to play them who didn't have any role in recording them. Let's face it, the Floodland songs have never sounded brilliant live, partly for that reason. Whereas the FALAA songs always worked really well live, because there wasn't such a gap between the way they were recorded, and the way they were played. So I agree 100% that my ideal RECORD would be a Von solo piece, but in terms of the live experience, collaborative pieces seem to work much better.

agreed

MrChris · 09 Sep 2003, 13:19

I certainly do think that Dominion has never sounded much good live (compared to other songs). I'd also say the same about Flood I and This Corrosion, although Flood II has been the best of a fairly weak bunch. I think you could be right about Flood II, and Lucretia has gone from awful around 1991, to pretty good on the right night now. Neverland sounded good to me, but no-one else seemed to be enjoying it that much. I'd call that a fairly poor live return on a bunch of absolutely top, kick-ass songs.

Black Planet · 09 Sep 2003, 13:33

Agree with Steinman producing, and a Von/Avalanche solo. Floodland is to die for by all accounts.

As for his reputation as hard to work with.....maybe that's why Floodland turned out so well.

Live versions of Floodland....I like them, but really, do you expect a full choir live (This Corrosion--Domion/Mother Russia)? That's the main difference, and a big one.

mayhem · 09 Sep 2003, 13:37

Try to imagine the conversation...

AE: oh go on Adam, let's make an album

AP: NO! Not unless it is a triple gatefold six hour long artistic triumph! With loads of pictures of me looking macho!

CS (sighs, gets out portastudio, makes solo album)

I'd rather have Whammy & Starling & no album than the opposite, myself. But that's just cos Snubnose is soo cool

M

ryan · 09 Sep 2003, 13:41

well im sure that eventually andrew will ditch the two just as he has ditched all the others before them. Or they'l get bored and go ride of into the sunset grasping a four track

Karst · 11 Sep 2003, 15:40

Begs the question - has any 100% original material from Adam ever been released?

Jim · 11 Sep 2003, 16:57

mayhem wrote:Try to imagine the conversation...

AE: oh go on Adam, let's make an album

AP: NO! Not unless it is a triple gatefold six hour long artistic triumph! With loads of pictures of me looking macho!

CS (sighs, gets out portastudio, makes solo album)

I'd rather have Whammy & Starling & no album than the opposite, myself. But that's just cos Snubnose is soo cool

M

bwah hah. youre funny. post more.

slicepack · 12 Sep 2003, 02:54

I think a Reznor/Eldritch collaboration would be rather entertaining - it certainly didn't do Bowie any harm to be associated with then then somewhat porky El Rezzo.

I'd like to know why the Steinman sessions didn't amount to a full album's worth of material...

Black Planet · 12 Sep 2003, 02:59

Damn good question, Slicepack!!!

Hadn't thought of that before... but those Steinman produced gems.....

belong in the Louvre.

Masterpieces All.

slicepack · 12 Sep 2003, 03:17

Being a mindwarp completist and ex-employee I always thought the lyric was "Lie down, lie back, shut up, submit, kiss the barrel baby - this is it" or are you quoting from a source that I'm unaware of?

Black Shuck · 12 Sep 2003, 11:12

I think there must be other reasons for the lack of new product than Chris + Adam 'holding Von back'.
like most great bands, The sisters have always been a dictatorship, not a democracy; I can't imagine Von LETTING a disposable pair of guitarists hold him back; as Floodland proves, he can make an album virtually on his own anyway.
No, I think Von has yet to recieve an offer he percieves to be fair; obviously He still wakes up every day in the hope that the phone ring ring, and it'll be sony music or EMI with a big money offer.

the new album will be released as soon as Von realizes that a big money deal aint ever gonna happen (especially in today's depressed record industry climate), or it would have happened by now. the thing is, the Sisters, in the eyes of the major record labels, just arent' 'cool' with the kids anymore, so they're not gonna be interested.

and they are growing less 'hip' year by year. sad, but true. the only thing that could really reverse this is if one or two of the cool new bands of the moment started namechscking the sisters, or wearing a sisters t-shirt on stage, etc.
The same thing happened with Iron Maiden - desperately uncool until a couple of years ago, when several yank rock bands starting talking in interviews about how great IM were.

so we just need to somehow persuade Jack White to wear a sisters t-shirt...

MrChris · 12 Sep 2003, 11:54

I don't remember anyone saying that Chris was holding back the Sisters... in fact I don't remember anyone criticising him at all. But - sorry to repeat myself - Eldritch recently said on the air that Adam HAS vetoed any non-major label release. I think Adam has written some great music, and I have nothing against him personally at all, but I think this is a short-sighted decision. I always thought the Sisters were about releasing great records, not the size of the advance. Sure, promotion is important, but ANYTHING released by the Sisters has got to sell at least 300,000, and almost certainly more if it's as good as I think it will be. This way, Adam gets nothing. I know patience is a virtue, but ten years?

JansenClone · 12 Sep 2003, 12:55

MrChris wrote:I always thought the Sisters were about releasing great records, not the size of the advance. Sure, promotion is important, but ANYTHING released by the Sisters has got to sell at least 300,000, and almost certainly more if it's as good as I think it will be. This way, Adam gets nothing. I know patience is a virtue, but ten years?

It's a difficult mind set to get inside isn't it. Wanting a big label / advance is obviously down to the realistic fear of the Sisters releasing 'something' and most people not noticing. At least holding on to the tracks gives them the potential of some future 'big' earnings. Don't forget a lot of the Sisters standing (such as it is these days) is built on being somewhat mysterious and aloof. More so than they actually are in truth. A series of poor selling releases wouldn't help that. Plus don't forget despite Eldritch's assertion of 'it'll recoup, they all recoup' when questioned about the high costs of recording 'Vision Thing' and despite touring / major label backing it didn't really do the business. Hence two albums of treading water and 'financial realignment' and the impression that WEA were no longer prepared to throw money at the Sisters for something new. It may well be no big label is now, which takes us back to the start...

Black Planet · 12 Sep 2003, 12:55

slicepack wrote:Being a mindwarp completist and ex-employee I always thought the lyric was "Lie down, lie back, shut up, submit, kiss the barrel baby - this is it" or are you quoting from a source that I'm unaware of?

The entire lyric is:

Lay Down, Lie Back, Shut Up, Submit
Peel It Off Baby This Is It.
I Got A Six Shooting Schizo Psycho Rod
Kiss The Barrel Baby Meet Your God

Tinkerbell · 12 Sep 2003, 13:17

slicepack wrote:Being a mindwarp completist and ex-employee I always thought the lyric was "Lie down, lie back, shut up, submit, kiss the barrel baby - this is it" or are you quoting from a source that I'm unaware of?

Ex - employee!!! Could we have more detail please?

shivarising · 13 Sep 2003, 05:44

I, too heard the BBC interview with Von where he commented about Adam not wanting less than 500,000 pounds. I think you all missed the deadpan there, though, as frequently happens. And Von also lists 2 Pro Tools setups in his equipment list, so a new studio would not necessarily be required.
Let's face it, Von is highly insecure about his craft and doesn't feel confident enough to release a new album without at least one song in the realm of "This Corrosion" or "More". I think he's suffered from a bit of writers' block.

CellThree · 13 Sep 2003, 08:41

shivarising wrote:I think he's suffered from a bit of writers' block.

For 10 years?

Black Shuck · 13 Sep 2003, 10:49

shivarising wrote: Let's face it, Von is highly insecure about his craft and doesn't feel confident enough to release a new album without at least one song in the realm of "This Corrosion" or "More". I think he's suffered from a bit of writers' block.

'This Corrosion' and 'More' are two of my least favourite Sisters songs.

slicepack · 13 Sep 2003, 14:10

Snub Nose wrote:(1) i cant believe there will ever be a reznor/eldritch colaboration

(2) perhaps its Adam's ego that is holding them back - his desire for
a major deal - otherwise - why HASNT he ridden off into the sunset ??

1) Neither do I - they're too similar in many ways - I just said it the results would be entertaining. Who would ever have thought that an AE/Steinman collaboration would work with such glorious results (but I bet they had some cracking arguments).

2)Adam is most probably on retainer from Merciful that is currently paying his rent. Guessing, I presume that Adam's reticience in releasing his music on DVD is one of publishing rights/revenue insomuch as the return on the the publishing rights for songs released on a 'homemade' DVD would be peanuts compared to an album released on a major label.