The Art Of Darkness

[Silver_Owl]

Out now.

https://membranes.bandcamp.com/merch/th ... -john-robb

The book is built mainly around the 80s post-punk Goth period featuring interviews with Andrew Eldritch, Killing Joke, Bauhaus, The Cult, The Banshees, The Damned, Einstürzende Neubauten, Johnny Marr, Trent Reznor, Adam Ant, Laibach, The Cure, Nick Cave and many others. …it looks at the music, style and the political and social conditions that spawned the culture and the great music, fashions and attitudes - clubs that defined it, and is also a first-hand account of being there at some of the legendary gigs and clubs that made the scene happen.

[markfiend]

Johnny Marr?

[Silver_Owl]

Johnny Marr?

The dark overlord of goth, Johnny Marr. Innit.

[markfiend]

Well that's just it isn't it. I'm pretty sure I have memory of Marr being very dismissive, even sneering at goth in the music papers back in the day. When it comes to it, I'm not particularly sure what Trent Reznor or Adam Ant have to do with goth. None of Killing Joke, Einstürzende, Laibach are really mainstream goth; more industrial IMO.

Is it just a case of John Robb interviewing a bunch of his mates and then desperately seeking a theme to tie it all together?

[iesus]

At the begining i thought it was the "Gothic Music - The Sounds of the Uncanny" by Isabella van Elferen
ISBN 978-0-7083-2512-4 (hardback)
ISBN 978-0-7083-2513-1 (paperback)
e-ISBN 978-0-7083-2518-6
but after a little i realised that this is new one
Which is actually have only one reference to Eldritch - Page 139 which goes as follows (no need to find the book for only a phrase...)

There are old school Goths, for instance, who claim Joy Division
was authentically gloomy proto-Goth, and that you had to be there
to really understand them; there are former punks who respond in
fury, claiming Joy Division had nothing to do with Goth, but were
authentically punk, and so Goth should stay away from them; and
there are Cybergoths who roll their eyes and claim that those old
people should finally forget about Joy Division because Trent
Reznor is the authentic founder of modern Goth.They are all right,
of course, as much as they are all wrong, because each of these
claims to authenticity reflects the importance of music in personal
and collective identification processes.The question, however, is not
whether old school Goths have actually been to the Batcave, nor
whether Ian Curtis – or Siouxsie Sioux,Peter Murphy and Andrew
Eldritch for that matter – said he was not a Goth, nor even whether
Joy Division addresses Gothic themes, but how and why this specific
music is so full of significance in the nostalgic backward glance of
Goths thereafter.

Also there is a reference to another book that i haven't found yet: Thompson, Dave, The Dark Reign of Gothic Rock: in the Reptile House with
the Sisters of Mercy, Bauhaus and The Cure (London: Helter Skelter
Publishing, 2002).

[MadameButterfly]

Well that's just it isn't it. I'm pretty sure I have memory of Marr being very dismissive, even sneering at goth in the music papers back in the day. When it comes to it, I'm not particularly sure what Trent Reznor or Adam Ant have to do with goth. None of Killing Joke, Einstürzende, Laibach are really mainstream goth; more industrial IMO.

Is it just a case of John Robb interviewing a bunch of his mates and then desperately seeking a theme to tie it all together?

Oh wow! Seriously Mark with statements like this and knowing you and being the ubber English goth man i have ever met and respect you have got me thinking again...
Indeed the whole goth culture is something one cannot explain because it's a part of your soul and being. When i realised i was goth it was because it was the last "box" you could admits to defining who you were. it's a state of mind that stems from being different from mainstream or normal. where introverts were more into their books than a social life. i remember that time all too well...
for anyone who doesn't know me...well i am from SA growing up in an apartheid country when politics and religion where never discussed cause it would cause s**t that the punk scene knows all about.
our goth scene in the years 1980's were all the UK influences with USA mind you but obviously the UK was more prominent. the clubs we used to party at were all into Sister's, the cure, the cult, Siouxsie, violent femmes, clash, ramones, dead kennedy's , nine inch nails, depeche mode, ....punk, alternative and rock 'n roll the better part where all rolled into one except the way you dressed defined you.
but because we were not mainstream we all combined together...because of the music but because of the state of mind.
looking back at the actual people in that state of mind brings tears to my eyes cause each and everyone in that world had such a sad story of abuse or domestic violence or neglect that those were the reasons that bond us and our heavy partying was to forget it or dance it out in a song.

So Marky thanks for taking me back in time!
If John Robb wrote this book interviewing a bunch of his mates, would you eventually buy the book i eventually write to give you insight into whatever world i take you into? Promise to include you

[MadameButterfly]

Please note ~* all under age users please stop reading ~

Our gothic choice of drug was lsd in cap form and that s**t used to last from Thursday until Sunday

~ *don't do drugs kids or you end up like me!
not something you want

[MadameButterfly]

Oh wait then was also the time when the industrial revolution was taking place at the same time! But that hardcore scene boarding on porn...sexy leather outfits and chains and thingy things. Those clubs i used to s**t myself in hoping i wouldn't be strung up and slaughtered in...remember if you weren't a Christian in SA at the time and were into darker s**t you were automatically a satanist or from an occult you were fuccked...those were the boxes you were placed in...
... my friends and i lived through some really bat arsed s**t in those days but we are still alive and kicking as the saying goes...

this is so off topic but it is an art...
...of darkness

[MadameButterfly]

^^^^ talking music not the actual industrial revolution before someone wants to put me in my place...

Anyhoo... anyone here read the book?

[eastmidswhizzkid]

Also there is a reference to another book that i haven't found yet: Thompson, Dave, The Dark Reign of Gothic Rock: in the Reptile House with
the Sisters of Mercy, Bauhaus and The Cure (London: Helter Skelter
Publishing, 2002).

thats a dreadful book. if theres any justice it will be long out of print.

[abridged]

Johnny Marr?

To be fair to Mr. Marr, he had very kind words to say about the Sisters in his autobiography.

[markfiend]

our goth scene in the years 1980's were all the UK influences with USA mind you but obviously the UK was more prominent. the clubs we used to party at were all into Sister's, the cure, the cult, Siouxsie, violent femmes, clash, ramones, dead kennedy's , nine inch nails, depeche mode, ....punk, alternative and rock 'n roll the better part where all rolled into one except the way you dressed defined you.

To be fair, that's a good point. None of the clubs were really exclusively goth music; I doubt they would have attracted a big enough crowd so yeah, Sisters, t'Mission, The Cure, but also Dead Kennedys, Killing Joke, Fugazi, PWEI, and then into the early 90s the beginning of the Sub-Pop scene started leaking into "our" clubs too. So I guess I'm being a bit too exclusive in my musical definitions.

I am probably going to get the book. John Robb can spin a good yarn after all.

================================================================================

Another thing occurred to me - The Banshees are mentioned in the people who were interviewed... but Siouxsie herself isn't. Am I reading too much into it or does that mean that herself wasn't involved?

[Pista]

To be fair, that's a good point. None of the clubs were really exclusively goth music

I never really accepted that there was "goth music" per se (not even that shiatty "gothic metal" that people like Epica & Evanescence spew out). Rather music that goths gravitated to.

Another thing occurred to me - The Banshees are mentioned in the people who were interviewed... but Siouxsie herself isn't. Am I reading too much into it or does that mean that herself wasn't involved?

Getting an interview with the Sioux is nigh on impossible. He's prolly spoken to Severin & perhaps Budgie though

[markfiend]

I never really accepted that there was "goth music" per se (not even that shiatty "gothic metal" that people like Epica & Evanescence spew out). Rather music that goths gravitated to.

Good point actually. If you sit down and think about it, it's not particularly easy to find common musical ground between (say) the Nephilim and Alien Sex Fiend.

[iesus]

thats a dreadful book. if theres any justice it will be long out of print.

Noticed
That is very helpful, so not to seek and waste time on
Thank YOu Bro

[MadameButterfly]

To be fair, that's a good point. None of the clubs were really exclusively goth music; I doubt they would have attracted a big enough crowd so yeah, Sisters, t'Mission, The Cure, but also Dead Kennedys, Killing Joke, Fugazi, PWEI, and then into the early 90s the beginning of the Sub-Pop scene started leaking into "our" clubs too. So I guess I'm being a bit too exclusive in my musical definitions.

I am probably going to get the book. John Robb can spin a good yarn after all.

Goth is seriously a state of mind, how you dress and quite possibly the most intelligent amongst common people.
this thread has definitely taken me back down memory lane to my younger years! how could i have forgotten about Laibach? Life is life!
lol one thing is for sure us goth ladies on the dance floor were definitely a sight to see and admire.
we couldn't speak german but we could definitely sing in german
yeah i am also thinking of getting this book just for the read

[Damaged+Done]

Also there is a reference to another book that i haven't found yet: Thompson, Dave, The Dark Reign of Gothic Rock: in the Reptile House with
the Sisters of Mercy, Bauhaus and The Cure (London: Helter Skelter
Publishing, 2002).

thats a dreadful book. if theres any justice it will be long out of print.

I think actually enjoyed that one and I thought it, quite rightly, put The Sisters head and shoulders above all the others contained within, particularly when discussing The Reptile House. Having said that, it was years since I read so I wouldn't necessarily say my memory is great.

[SmileySister]

I had a little chat with John Robb after his book signing night in Liverpool. He only had good things to say about AE. I got a book but I haven't read it yet.